PlayerComparisons
International Vice-Captain
Who is the second greatest opener of all time?
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Sunil Gavaskar vs Len Hutton
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Sir Len Hutton. Already well and truly in the handful contenders for the best after Bradman. Ridiculous to even think what Hutton would have actually done with no World War and no injury at all.
shortpitched713
International Captain
Hard to rate a pre professional era ( even part of his career being in the interwar period ) player, with one playing in the start of the professional era. I don't think this one should end up being one-sided.
a massive zebra
International Captain
What do you mean by pre professional era? Professional cricketers have existed since the late 1700s, and both of these players most definitely were professionals. Hutton was the first professional to captain England in the 20th century. Hundreds of men played cricket for a living in England during his generation.
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shortpitched713
International Captain
The massive changes in the structure of cricket in the 70s, due to WSC, ODIs, multiple high quality international teams, standard of pace bowling, increasing all were part of a change towards "professional cricket" whereas before that part time professionals with little leverage dictated to by totalitarian boards and watched by relatively smaller audiences was the norm. Also not nearly as much televised cricket.
The whole decade saw the transition of cricket into the game as we know it and like other sports that we consider as professional, and the standards improved to match that as well, just like they did in other professional sports.
As an aside I want to make a thread on 70s cricket footage. It truly was a magical time.
The whole decade saw the transition of cricket into the game as we know it and like other sports that we consider as professional, and the standards improved to match that as well, just like they did in other professional sports.
As an aside I want to make a thread on 70s cricket footage. It truly was a magical time.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Would say basically everyone thinks they're top four. Who's the fifth?
CricAddict
International Coach
Yeah, Hobbs, Hutton, Sutcliffe and Gavaskar being top 4 is the consensus with any of the two getting into atg xi. To me, fifth is Bob Simpson while Hayden, Smith, Boycott and Sehwag are contenders.
the big bambino
Cricketer Of The Year
It’s a confection to justify generational bias. To compare across eras and deliver a predetermined outcome. So for example more teams have actually brought in more minnow or middling teams and teams once great, like the West Indies, are now almost associate level. Also the incidence of pace bowling goes up and down as it has always done. But these inconveniences can be sidelined with confections as described above.
Boycott
OverratedSanity
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Hutton because of how amazing his record is despite missing many prime years to War. But it's close.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yes, agreed.
I would also add 'intensity' which the mid-70s Australians brought to cricket. Hence my bias for cricketers from the modern era onwards. Gavaskar was probably the most tested opener ever, aside from maybe Michael Atherton.
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shortpitched713
International Captain
Why are we talking about sweets here? Homie, you baking?
the big bambino
Cricketer Of The Year
I'd like to say well done, but you're half baked.
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a massive zebra
International Captain
All of this is very debatable. The standard of pace bowling has gone up and down across the generations in individual countries and across the world. For instance, the Indian opening bowlers of the 1930s (Amar Singh, Mohammad Nissar) would have been contenders for an Indian ATG side until very recently, and the English attack of the 1950s (Bedser, Trueman, Tyson, Statham) is probably their best ever.
Modern cricket has certainly seem the introduction of more international teams but with more teams you also run the risk of introducing new sides too early, which gives modern players the chance to feast on really weak sides that were simply not allocated Test status in earlier eras. For instance, the Bangladesh side of the 2000s was possibly the worst Test team ever, with the possible exception of 19th century South Africa who played far fewer Tests.
Your comments about part time professionals are simply ill informed and incorrect. For instance, in the 1930s and for a couple more decades, English county sides played 32 county matches a year. This works out at 96 days cricket a year. Far from being part time, this is actually more days of county cricket than they play today, even allowing for one day, T20 and hundred matches.
Your comments about smaller audiences are also incorrect, at least in terms of people attending matches in then established cricketing nations at the time. For instance, bank holiday county championship matches in the inter war period often saw audiences of 20,000 in the biggest grounds. This never happens today, except on Lords cup final days. Sheffield Shield matches in Australia also saw similar audiences for the biggest matches, which never happens today. Obviously with television and internet, more people view matches today, but this is simply a function of the availability of access. Certainly, more people in England and Australia played, were interested in and made an effort to follow cricket back then than they do now.
If the standard of cricket improved so much in the 1970s, why were several long established players with experience going back many years previously, able to continue to succeed just as well in the 1970s as they had previously? For instance, Geoff Boycott, who first played Tests in 1964, made 3,806 runs at 55.97 in the 1970s, which is well above his overall career record. Ian Redpath, who also first played Tests in 1964, made 2,861 runs @ 50.19 in the 1970s, again well above his overall career record.
That the 1970s saw a revolution in professionalism and a huge improvement in overall standard is your own personal opinion. It can be debated either way and is far from a widely accepted truism or an established fact.