Such a hurt that Pakistan/India series don't take place anymore..and it's been ages...

[Daemon]

if this was true, then there would have been more efforts to make that happen.
These day India vs Australia and India vs England mean a lot more to India and England and Australia. Touring India is a lot more convenient for the English and Aussies compared to 40 years ago. There is more money and more fun.
As a cricket fan I want to see India compete against the very best in the world. Pakistan is not in that league; so the idea of playing them doesn't excite me at all.

There's been no lack of willingness from both sides, it's purely blocked because of politics. Just because there isn't one now doesn't mean it wouldn't be an absolutely massive draw. All the evidence points to it.

Also I daresay Pakistan in India would put up a better show than England has over the last few years. Maybe bazball has changed that, we'll find out next year. Either way, it'd be a bigger draw.

Even if Pakistan are not as good as India in tests it doesn't mean it'll become boring. Look at the Ashes. England get pantsed every time they go over but the crowds still show up in droves.

 

[bagapath]

Well as a businessman youre not looking at the numbers , then you would realise you're in the minority..

Every time India vs Pakistan play a cricket match some viewership record gets broken,

For example the 2023 World Cup group game between India vs Pak , even though it was one sided ..
it broke the record for the most viewers watching a cricket stream at one time (35 million )

Every World Cup the most watched game is always India vs Pakistan and its not even close..

Its not a coincidence that India and Pakistan are drawn together in tournaments the ICC are not stupid they know how big a money spinner this game is. Test Cricket does need that kind of pull again, but politics behind the scenes is preventing bilateral series, maybe thats why so many tournaments are happening more often these days to milk the India vs Pakistan cashcow.

India Pakistan test matches were mostly boring stalemates. At the peak of the rivalry they played out 90% of draws. The ODI or T20 matches are attracting viewership because they have become rare and the two teams play each other only in important global tournaments. A bilateral series between them will at best generate as much interest as India playing other major teams. There is nothing special in the match up anymore.

 

[bagapath]

There's been no lack of willingness from both sides, it's purely blocked because of politics. Just because there isn't one now doesn't mean it wouldn't be an absolutely massive draw. All the evidence points to it.

Also I daresay Pakistan in India would put up a better show than England has over the last few years. Maybe bazball has changed that, we'll find out next year. Either way, it'd be a bigger draw.

Even if Pakistan are not as good as India in tests it doesn't mean it'll become boring. Look at the Ashes. England get pantsed every time they go over but the crowds still show up in droves.

I didn't predict a boring series. The see-sawing nature of team balance could create two evenly matched teams and result in a good contest. Pakistan could win. That is not my point. All I was saying was that there is nothing special in the India Pakistan match up anymore. Those days of these two teams being seen as rivals are over.

 

[Silver Silva]

Its been too long , since the last test series was 16 years ago , you could make quite a strong combined Indian and Pakistan Test XI that have never played in an Indo-Pak test match (Min.20 Tests) :


1.Rohit Sharma
2.Azhar Ali
3.Cheteshwar Pujara
4.Virat Kohli
5.Babar Azam
6.Rishabh Pant (WK)
7.Ravindra Jadeja
8.Ravichandran Ashwin
9.Mohammad Shami
10.Shaheen Shah Afridi
11.Jaspirt Bumrah

 

[srbhkshk]

I didn't predict a boring series. The see-sawing nature of team balance could create two evenly matched teams and result in a good contest. Pakistan could win. That is not my point. All I was saying was that there is nothing special in the India Pakistan match up anymore. Those days of these two teams being seen as rivals are over.

Just not true tbh, even games other than cricket (the occasional Hockey or Football or squash game even) between India and Pakistan garner quite a bit of attention from both sides, economic or whatever factors don't matter as long as the fans care.

I do think if cricket was regular there would be danger of the two teams overplaying each other and taking the sheen of the rivalry and I think a bit of that had started to happen during 06ish.

 

[honestbharani]

Just not true tbh, even games other than cricket (the occasional Hockey or Football or squash game even) between India and Pakistan garner quite a bit of attention from both sides, economic or whatever factors don't matter as long as the fans care.

I do think if cricket was regular there would be danger of the two teams overplaying each other and taking the sheen of the rivalry and I think a bit of that had started to happen during 06ish.

I actually preferred the 2006 thing tbh. It wud help both countries if we cud just be co-operative Neighbors who realize we both are being exploited for geopolitical gains by both the West and China.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

I do not believe that rivalry means anything important to anyone anymore. I do not believe in the hype TV channels are creating for these games.

The two countries are no longer competitors in anything. In the last three decades India has grown in all other fields and has become a global powerhouse; the undisputed top dog in the business of cricket. Pakistan has gone backwards politically, socially and economically. No one toured them for a decade and the game did not suffer because of that. They are still neighbours; but not equals.

There is simmering anger and racist hatred between them. That is not going to produce anything fun like it used to, when India and Pakistan - despite harbouring similar mutual anger as now, perhaps - still behaved like siblings trying to outdo each other in cricket. In the 80s and 90s Pakistan was the winner on the cricket field, by miles - except in the 50 over world cups.

Now there is no kick in the Pakistan - India matches because they are not equals outside of the playing field anymore.
Even on the field, India may dominate Pakistan for now. That balance will always swing with time.
But the overall difference between the countries may not be bridged for centuries.
In the next decades Afghanistan might catch up with Pakistan on all fronts and that may become a hot cricketing rivalry.

Not from Pakistan but India itself is a very poor country to say Pakistan will never catch them. Anyway, it would be better to put those points out of context while discussing on cricket.

 

[bagapath]

There is no “cricketing reason” to explain the rivalry. India and Pakistan have played very few classic games that deserve to be celebrated for the quality of cricket. The passion between the teams and fans was fuelled by a sibling rivalry - two nations being cut from the same cloth. When that equation died down and there is a gulf between them in all walks of life then each nation will have to create new rivalries. India and Australia could be the most exciting match up for Indians because Australia is who they would want to be in cricket. Australia would still want to beat England, their colonial masters. This was true even when England was weak and west indies were the top dog in the 80s/ 90s. No “cricketing reason” there too!

I am putting forward what i believe is the reason for indopak rivalry working for so long… and why it may not work anymore… two developing countries that grew together for a while… now with one moving forward in the race and the other one playing catch up.

 

[Daemon]

When that equation died down and there is a gulf between them in all walks of life

Honestly it just feels like you’re deliberately trying to get a reaction from the Pakistani posters here or something with multiple statements like these

 

[honestbharani]

Honestly it just feels like you’re deliberately trying to get a reaction from the Pakistani posters here or something with multiple statements like these

Nah, bags is not like that. He is just pretty stubborn with certain thoughts once he is convinced.

 

[Sunil1z]

This thread should no longer be in Cricket forum and moved in off topic section imo .

 

[howitzer]

This thread should no longer be in Cricket forum and moved in off topic section imo .

Don't sully off topic with this thread imo.

 

[bagapath]

Honestly it just feels like you’re deliberately trying to get a reaction from the Pakistani posters here or something with multiple statements like these

Ah come on!!! Show some trust in humanity!!!

Imran versus Gavaskar
Miandad versus Kapil
Were the kind of comparisons and rivalries that would keep the series going those days
Equally talented cricketers from similar countries locking horns in front of millions of mad fans - winning and losing mattered. To the point of Zaheer Abbas telling Gavaskar to “come to pakistan; we will show you” when India beat Pakistan in India (And Pakistan showed. Big time). The two nations were fellow travellers, rivals, equals.

Now… they are different countries in different points in history. Balance has changed on many different fronts

In cricketing pecking order they are not equals. One country generates most of the money in the business. It doesn’t need the support of the other to run their office. Even IPL versus PSL is not even a comparison!.

India vs Pakistan is a manufactured rivalry these days, for tv ratings.

 

[Spark]

It's extremely naive to think that sporting rivalries are exclusively about just sporting history.

 

[bagapath]

It's extremely naive to think that sporting rivalries are exclusively about just sporting history.

thank you

 

[Daemon]

It's extremely naive to think that sporting rivalries are exclusively about just sporting history.

I think we all agree on that.

I also agree with Bagapath that as the non-cricketing reasons fade away, the rivalry can diminish. It certainly has to an extent.

I definitely disagree that it's all manufactured and no longer exciting these days though. We still share a culture, history and deep ties that make the match up a huge draw.

We also don't play them enough to keep the rivalry even stronger. We missed an entire era of Misbah vs Dhoni which would've put two of the best ever sides in Asian conditions against each other. That would've been huge despite Pakistan's economic conditions deteriorating at the time. Actually playing cricket against each other matters a lot.

Look at the the rivalry between India and Australia for example. It's growing largely because of sporting history. Economic conditions improving have certainly enabled India being more competitive, but comparing GDP per capita does not drive why fans or the players give a **** about the contest. It's largely down to sporting history - competitive series, scandals like monkeygate, Australia cheating etc. India is still lagging Australia in all sorts of economic, social, political factors but nobody cares about that.

 

[honestbharani]

PPL

Wish Pak had called their league that.

 

[bagapath]

We are not too far from each other on this point. I disagree with your interpretation of the global angle on this, though.

I think the big monies available in India for playing cricket to a billion spectators is the reason for Australia and England to tour India regularly. IPL is super important in creating this power equation in favour of India. As luck would have it, India also put up some brave shows against the almighty Aussies (akin to Pakistan standing up to the 1980s Windies in three consecutive series). Notwithstanding this, in the business of cricket, nobody wants to miss out on playing with India anyways. Quality of cricket is secondary. Question: If Pakistan played exciting cricket against Australia, will Australia versus Pakistan become a marquee series? Answer: No.

If you remember, there were sickening terror attacks in Jaipur on the eve of an IPL. But the tournament just went on. Even after 26/11 terror attack, the England tour resumed. No one refuses to play in India. There is too much money. Every global corporate fight in the business of cricket over the past decade has ended in India's favour. India Australia and England are the big three; all the other boards are financially dependent on these three agreeing to play them.

Do I think Cricket Australia like India? I don't think so. But if the Aussies are asked to wear Indian clothes for Indian television and speak to the camera in Hindi wishing the Indians for Diwali, they will do so. Because that is where the business is.

In this changed scenario, India-Pakistan matches are no longer special. Not for India. Probably not for Pakistan either - for I am sure all the Pakistani cricketers would want to participate in IPL even if they too are occasionally asked to dress up for Indian TV audiences and say cute things to the camera. There is no way the edgy 80s rivalry can be manufactured in this atmosphere.

 

[bagapath]

Wish Pak had called their league that.

hahahaha
will fix it

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Question: If Pakistan played exciting cricket against Australia, will Australia versus Pakistan become a marquee series? Answer: No.

Nah, disagree with this.