Stratergic ways of beating Australia

[Richard]

Not the Indian team- they just try for pace that they don't have. Not the English team- at least not Anderson- though Caddick was not too bad. Not the West Indians- this current pace attack isn't capable of doing it. Not SA- except Pollock and Ntini. Probably NZ do- without power.

New Zealand at least have had the wood over Australia's batting in ODIs recently even if not Tests - more especially, Bond has.

 

[Mr. P]

With the batting it's a bit easier but so many batting-line-ups put themselves under so much pressure with bad psychology (no, the bowlers DON'T create the pressure) that you still see stacks of failures.

I beg to differ. How can you judge that? You have to go into the batsmans mind to look that up. Besides, whilst you would be right in many a case, bowlers DO create pressure. I trust you yourself have played cricket?

People here seem to have an inability to accept simple facts. It is ridiculous all these people listing all the TYPES of bowling attacks the Australians will have weakness to. Accept it. The Aussie players are not your average 40+ batsman. These guys will go down in history and they can play all types of bowling.

I hate to say it guys, but this is international cricket. Everything you have said has been tried and tried again, to no avail.

 

[Richard]

I beg to differ. How can you judge that? You have to go into the batsmans mind to look that up. Besides, whilst you would be right in many a case, bowlers DO create pressure. I trust you yourself have played cricket?

I've not played limitless-over cricket, and don't need to to know that slow runs are better than no runs.

 

[Mr. P]

So? How does that comment show that bowlers cannot create pressure? Look at it logically mate, you'll see the light

 

[Tim]

Starting from the VB Series..this is how NZ have had Australia after the 25th over mark:

VB Series - Game 1: 4/120 (around that total)
VB Series - Game 4: 4/118
VB Series - Game 8: 5/97
VB Series - Game 10: 6/100 (around that total)
ICC K'O - 3/150 (around that total)
World Cup - 6/80
TVS Cup - Game 3: Australia won by 8 wickets before the 25th over
TVS Cup - Game 5: 4/120 (around that total)
TVS Cup - Game 7: 5/115 (around that total)

some of those totals are estimates, but shouldn't be too far off.
A couple of the matches Australia were well on top..but apart from that NZ have consistently taken around 4 or 5 Australian wickets everytime by the 25th over.

The problem for NZ has been that they have been unable to finish the tail & then score the required runs to win.
So in that sense, they still have a lot of work to do to beat Australia..but if things snap together they could do it.

 

[Mr. P]

So in that sense, they still have a lot of work to do to beat Australia..but if things snap together they could do it.

I hate ifs and buts.

IF the Aussie top order could find a way to deal with Bond, we would win even easier. See what I mean? Annoying things...

 

[Deja moo]

The Aussie team had an interesting strategy . Instead of exploiting a batting line-ups weaknesses , they exploit their strengths.

For example , Ganguly is a strong player of balls outside the off-stump .What any team would look to do is to then not bowl in that area .What the Aussies did in the 2001 series is to feed him deliveries in that very area , and sure enough , Ganguly kept nicking those deliveries innings after innings in that series .

Their strategy hence was to feed the batsman to his strengths , and wait for him to commit a mistake .

 

[Craig]

Well get rid of the notion that you should bowl first on a flat wicket that has a bit of seam movement, so what? All wickets (well most) have some and if you can't handle batting for 30 minutes or so with it, then you shouldn't even be playing first class cricket.

It is handing the adavntage stright back to the Australians.

Also get rid of this idea of 'hoping to compete' (this applies to England), it is like saying 'we don't think we will win and the Australians have it over us in every department'. Whilst that maybe true, it is that sort of negativety that rubs onto the rest of the team (especially if it is made by a captain or a senior member of the side) and they don't believe they can win.

I think you must believe you can win and not give up until the last wicket falls. Think Brian Lara 153* and VVS Laxman 281 for inspiration. This applies to all facets of batting and bowling.

If you have the advantage, get it going and ram it down the Australians throat. Do not ever let them have a sniff. Be ruthless.

Man I hate losing.

 

[Arjun]

New Zealand at least have had the wood over Australia's batting in ODIs recently even if not Tests - more especially, Bond has.

Only Bond has- and probably Cairns. The others are not that great, which is why from 80/6, they reached 220.

Also get rid of this idea of 'hoping to compete' (this applies to England), it is like saying 'we don't think we will win and the Australians have it over us in every department'. Whilst that maybe true, it is that sort of negativety that rubs onto the rest of the team (especially if it is made by a captain or a senior member of the side) and they don't believe they can win.

Indeed- play to win. At least then, the team will be able to compete. Ian Chappell was right- Nasser Hussain's negative tactics crashed on him in the Ashes.

I think you must believe you can win and not give up until the last wicket falls. Think Brian Lara 153* and VVS Laxman 281 for inspiration. This applies to all facets of batting and bowling.

If you have the advantage, get it going and ram it down the Australians throat. Do not ever let them have a sniff. Be ruthless.

Man I hate losing.

Very valid points. This should be forwarded to some opposition captains.

 

[Arjun]

Three basic steps- play to your strengths, stick to the basics, and press hard for a victory. The power players in the team have a very crucial role, but a lot of imagination is also needed when playing against the Australians.

 

[Mr. P]

Three basic steps- play to your strengths, stick to the basics, and press hard for a victory. The power players in the team have a very crucial role, but a lot of imagination is also needed when playing against the Australians.

Do you honestly think teams don't attempt to do this??

 

[Richard]

So? How does that comment show that bowlers cannot create pressure? Look at it logically mate, you'll see the light

I'm trying to look at it logically.
Pressure is a feeling, a feeling in the mind.
It's presence in cricket is usually when you feel you're not doing something you should be doing.
In the limited-overs game there will always be what can be referred to as scoreboard-pressure - if the bowlers are keeping the runs down to 3-an-over, clearly that's not usually going to be enough to win the match so, sometime, you have to try and up the rate. Equally, if you're chasing 6.5-an-over and you have just 2 or 3 overs where you score at 3-an-over, that is going to make the batsmen feel, understandibly, under pressure.
However, what I object to is the notion that bowlers deserve credit for any pressure in the batsman's mind when they're, frankly, worrying about what they needn't. Eg, the scoring-rate in the First-Class-game. Or the pace and bounce of the pitch, or the amount the ball's moving around.
The pressure is in the mind, it is not some sort of aura or field. In some instances, the bowlers deserve credit for the batsmen feeling under pressure. However, there are lots of instances where viewers try to credit bowlers for the batsmen feeling under pressure when they needn't, eg because they're only scoring at 2.7-an-over in the First-Class-game.
There are also instances where people talk as if batsmen should be feeling under pressure and, because they've got the right mentality, they aren't. If someone's scoring very slowly in a First-Class match, they're not likely to be feeling under pressure if they're that good a batsman. However, that doesn't stop viewers saying "they're building the pressure here".

 

[anzac]

IMO...............

*have a strategy that everyone is part of - a recent thread mentioned previous ENG team discussions re S Waugh & what to bowl to him - seemed all over the place & no final agreement etc........

*be patient on the field - esp when batting - stick to your game plan & make the Aussies bowl to you - eg AUS v NZL in Perth.............

*IMO AUS have tended to find it a bit tougher when the match goes the distance - particularly if the pitch is 'neutral' i.e. not favoring either spin or seam.......& even more so if the opposition have managed to post 2 solid batting performances..........

*IMO the main AUS weakness is they have 4 primary bowlers without strong cover - Lehman & Katich can be useful on helpful pitches but are not frontline quality. A determined batting effort (not negative) can tire the frontline attack & then runs will follow - a strong 2nd innings total & give AUS a sizeable target - the catch being you must have bowlers able to exploit Day 5 conditions by getting it in the right spot.............

*a couple of world class players would help.....

*above all else - team discipline.............

 

[tooextracool]

Not the Indian team- they just try for pace that they don't have. Not the English team- at least not Anderson- though Caddick was not too bad. Not the West Indians- this current pace attack isn't capable of doing it. Not SA- except Pollock and Ntini. Probably NZ do- without power.

i find it hard to believe that any sane bowler would not try to break a partnership...that just ruins the point of bowling IMO. rather the point should be how do you break a big partnership not whether they should or not....

 

[tooextracool]

IMO one of the most crucial aspects is fielding.....if you take most of your catches and pull of a few blinders you will always be in with a chance, assuming of course you have decent batsmen and bowlers that bowl to a plan.

 

[Mr. P]

I'm trying to look at it logically.
Pressure is a feeling, a feeling in the mind.
It's presence in cricket is usually when you feel you're not doing something you should be doing.
In the limited-overs game there will always be what can be referred to as scoreboard-pressure - if the bowlers are keeping the runs down to 3-an-over, clearly that's not usually going to be enough to win the match so, sometime, you have to try and up the rate. Equally, if you're chasing 6.5-an-over and you have just 2 or 3 overs where you score at 3-an-over, that is going to make the batsmen feel, understandibly, under pressure.
However, what I object to is the notion that bowlers deserve credit for any pressure in the batsman's mind when they're, frankly, worrying about what they needn't. Eg, the scoring-rate in the First-Class-game. Or the pace and bounce of the pitch, or the amount the ball's moving around.
The pressure is in the mind, it is not some sort of aura or field. In some instances, the bowlers deserve credit for the batsmen feeling under pressure. However, there are lots of instances where viewers try to credit bowlers for the batsmen feeling under pressure when they needn't, eg because they're only scoring at 2.7-an-over in the First-Class-game.
There are also instances where people talk as if batsmen should be feeling under pressure and, because they've got the right mentality, they aren't. If someone's scoring very slowly in a First-Class match, they're not likely to be feeling under pressure if they're that good a batsman. However, that doesn't stop viewers saying "they're building the pressure here".

I won't deny that pressure is in the mind, but I have to say the bowlers do create it.

I will take your example. Team A has bowled very well, taken a few wickets and restricted the runs. Team B is only scoring at 2.7 runs per over. The batsman in is 'feeling the pressure'

The question is, who created it?

Whilst the batsman has obviously put the pressure on himself, he did not create it, or 'build it.' You need two reactants to make a product and if Team A were bowling badly the batsman wouldn't feel anything. It is not really his fault if he worries because pressure is natural and it is naive to say that he shouldn't feel anything.

 

[Nate]

Do you honestly think teams don't attempt to do this??

just shows arjuns limits of thinking...

 

[Tim]

I think you'll also find that Dan Vettori has played some of his best cricket against Australia.

 

[marc71178]

Impossible.

He's a finger spinner and the games aren't in the sub-continent!

 

[lord_of_darkness]

I think you'll also find that Dan Vettori has played some of his best cricket against Australia.

no tim is right.. dan made that marvellous debut against Aus .. and i remember that game when Aus was touring nz and he took that 5 or 6'er in the test in auckland..