Steve Waugh vs Rahul Dravid (Tests)

[h_hurricane]

Yeah people thinking that not outs inflate averages have little idea of how cricket works.

You're far more likely to get out between 0 and 20 than at any other period in your innings. Not outs are runs lost, not gained.

It works both ways. Sometimes, while batting with tailenders, people just throw their bats around trying to get as many runs as possible (Lara, Gilchrist etc). Waugh and Tendulkar have been rightly criticized many times for trying to remain not out while running out of partners. In such cases not outs are run lost for the team while also benefiting the batsman concerned as far as the average goes.

 

[srbhkshk]

Also strange how a lot of Australian fans seem to like dravid more than Sachin (not necessarily as batsmen but just as blokes) despite both being similarly mild mannered. And Indian fans absolutely adore Waugh and despise Ponting despite both being ****s on the field.

I think it comes from two of Dravid's best innings ending up in wins against Australia - I'd say If Indian bowlers had stood up better in Sydney 2004 or some batsman had supported him in Mumbai 2001 he'd be better respected as a hard and clutch player. It's got nothing to do with Tendulkar in the end imo just that not everyone was blessed by the greatness of Agarkar.

 

[h_hurricane]

I feel like should warn you in case you aren't already aware, that Burgey is in all likelihood not exactly being entirely serious

If that is the case, I have to say that I have not seen a serious Burgey at all

 

[Burgey]

In all seriousness, Dravid and Waugh were two guys who had a ton of respect for each other. Both had similar strengths in that they'd grit it out and get tough runs even when not being in good form, played some amazing innings in difficult to bat conditions (probably the two best at this that I've seen). Waugh was dravid's role model as a young batsman and used to go to him for advice and after that Adelaide win in Waugh's last series, he raved about dravid's performance even though it would've been a disappointing loss. And he also chose Dravid to write the foreword for his book. They clearly have a bit of a bromamce going on.

Also strange how a lot of Australian fans seem to like dravid more than Sachin (not necessarily as batsmen but just as blokes) despite both being similarly mild mannered. And Indian fans absolutely adore Waugh and despise Ponting despite both being ****s on the field.

Dravid wrote the forward to Waugh's autobiography. Fair to say there's a lot of respect between the two.

I also think discerning Australians respect Dravid a lot more because he overtly put the team before himself. Opened when he had to, batted a bit further down the order when it was necessary, captained with a decent amount of success etc. Was perceived as more of a boy-on-the-burning-deck type then Tendulkar, who plainly went missing when it got tough, especially against Australia in all formats. Waugh rated Dravid the mentally toughest player he played against, which is understandable because blokes like Tendulkar and Lara went missing a lot of the time, whereas Dravid tended to grind it out.

Of course, the less intelligent supporters here (like their counterparts everywhere) rate Tendulkar higher, because he looked prettier, even though he never moved from number four, failed as a captain (couldn't take the pressure of doing it) and basically went missing in a lot of big games. He was essentially a non-bowling Kallis.

 

[harsh.ag]

Imagine judging a batsman on his beautiful technique. Blasphemous.

 

[Burgey]

It's about output mate, particularly under pressure, otherwise Steve Smith would never get a game. And he's better than all of the blokes under discussion in this thread.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It's about output mate, particularly under pressure, otherwise Steve Smith would never get a game. And he's better than all of the blokes under discussion in this thread.

Only thing he's better at is getting caught tampering. Didn't have the invaluable ability to dodge punishment like Dravid and Sachin.

 

[harsh.ag]

It's about output mate, particularly under pressure, otherwise Steve Smith would never get a game. And he's better than all of the blokes under discussion in this thread.

Heh. Score more centuries at a better average from a tougher position in a weaker team with better technique in a more eye pleasing way, and be rated lower than Waugh because of "output". Anything to assuage the grand Aussie delusion.

 

[J_C]

Tbf Chanderpaul would've been a more apt choice to write the foreword for Waugh's book. Being a fellow red ink merchant and all. I see the canard about Tendulkar not moving from no. 4 being spread again. Tendulkar batted at five in a decent number of innings averaging 65+. Had he been a not out leech like Waugh and Border, he'd have stayed there for the best part of his career keeping his average in the high 50s at least. Being a complete team man, he batted higher up the order even if it hurt his stats. WAG.

 

[Burgey]

Heh. Score more centuries at a better average from a tougher position in a weaker team with better technique in a more eye pleasing way, and be rated lower than Waugh because of "output". Anything to assuage the grand Aussie delusion.

Tendulkar's entire career was made on scoring "almost-but-not-quite" runs, tough or otherwise. Great player, but just couldn't get the job done when it mattered most. The anti-Waugh.

 

[Burgey]

Tbf Chanderpaul would've been a more apt choice to write the foreword for Waugh's book. Being a fellow red ink merchant and all. I see the canard about Tendulkar not moving from no. 4 being spread again. Tendulkar batted at five in a decent number of innings averaging 65+. Had he been a not out leech like Waugh and Border, he'd have stayed there for the best part of his career keeping his average in the high 50s at least. Being a complete team man, he batted higher up the order even if it hurt his stats. WAG.

Who are you? You've been here since 2010 and I've never come across you before. You're CW's Twitter Egg poster.

 

[Burgey]

Tendulkar's entire career was made on scoring "almost-but-not-quite" runs, tough or otherwise. Great player, but just couldn't get the job done when it mattered most. The anti-Waugh.

Lack of response to this post in 15 minutes means it’s been tacitly accepted by Tendulkar fans, who’ve looked inside their cold, dead hearts and finally seen the truth.

 

[harsh.ag]

Tendulkar's entire career was made on scoring "almost-but-not-quite" runs, tough or otherwise. Great player, but just couldn't get the job done when it mattered most. The anti-Waugh.

Lack of response to this post in 15 minutes means it’s been tacitly accepted by Tendulkar fans, who’ve looked inside their cold, dead hearts and finally seen the truth.

How To Avoid Becoming A Grumpy Old Man

 

[Burgey]

Mate, I’m not grumpy. I’m in clover here.

 

[harsh.ag]

Mate, I’m not grumpy. I’m in clover here.

Are you under the impression that only uncomfortable old people are grumpy?

 

[J_C]

Who are you? You've been here since 2010 and I've never come across you before. You're CW's Twitter Egg poster.

I generally post in the draft threads tbh. One of my go to strategies in drafts has always been to avoid picking red link merchants and grafters like Border/Chanderpaul/Waugh like plague which has served me pretty well .

 

[Burgey]

I generally post in the draft threads tbh. One of my go to strategies in drafts has always been to avoid picking red link merchants and grafters like Border/Chanderpaul/Waugh like plague which has served me pretty well .

Now it all makes sense. Further proof of the need for a separate sub forum for drafts so those of us who live in the real world can focus on the real thing.

This just proves what a farce drafts are tbh. While the blokes you prefer are highly prized in the virtual world, blokes like Waugh won tests in the real one.

 

[Burgey]

And still no substantive attempt to rebut my irrefutable argument that Waugh > Tendulkar for the period I’ve noninated. Instead we have nothing but as homs and straw men.

This is what comes of thinking about cricket in a virtual reality draft world rather than watching and observing the real thing

 

[Coronis]

Can't we just agree that Smith is better than both and move on?

 

[h_hurricane]

Steve Waugh on a hot March morning in 2001 ( Visibly annoyed that Ganguly had kept him waiting for toss) : How dare he do this to irrefutably the best batsman of the past decade ?

Ian Chappell (waiting for the same toss report) : Don't make me laugh my *** off mate. You were not even the best batsman born on the same ****ing day you were born.