subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Who cares because he already did well in Pakistan and India. It is a blip. Sanga not doing well in SA and India is far more significant.
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Steve Waugh vs Kumar Sangakkara
- Thread starter BazBall21
- Start date
Migara
International Coach
Once again no. Sri Lanka provided the toughest challenge in spin. So it is significant. Waugh was embarrassingly poor against a spin attack led by a ATG spinner.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
When you split already ehhh sample sizes up into tiny chunks like that you're always gonna get shitty records over small periods just by fluke. Analysis by checklist is Satanic (in the bad way).
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
He only played three innings against SL in SL. Never got out to Murali either. Calling that a serious failure to spin is pretty ridiculous.
Migara
International Coach
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yes. You may have noticed I do that. It's even in my sig.Well we can apply the rule universally then
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Big hundreds has more to do with batting position and soft pitches. The only argument for Sanga is being more aggressive.
I find Waughs low rating on this forum so odd.
BazBall21
International Captain
Are you an Aussie, Sub?
Waugh divides opinion more than most greats. Quite a lot of people think he’s overrated, but you’ll always find some people who rate him extremely highly.
Batting position fundamentally helps big hundreds which is a benefit for the team of batting top 4 and I was also linking Sanga’s destructiveness to them.
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
This is my point exactly. "specialist lower order role in a very strong batting lineup" is a) easier and b) less valuable than batting in the top order. Furthermore, to play that role optimally you need to hit out when you're batting with the tail and Waugh didn't.
Waugh was undoubtedly a great batsman but when you're comparing two atgs then 'actual contribution to his team' is a significant factor.
ZK$
U19 Cricketer
Most ATGs have RPIs in the high 40s or low 50s. Border, Waugh, and Chanderpaul all have RPIs of around 42.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Nope not an Aussie. I remember him from the mid-late nineties when he was considered the most valuable wicket in cricket, ahead of Tendulkar perhaps.
I think his underrating is based on the notion he was selfish propogated by Chappell and Warne, and his reputation was quickly overshadowed by the rise of Ponting, etc.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
While I grant that Waugh batting down the order may have been easier in general, I think it is balanced given the high quality of the attacks he scored against and the unique impact he had in that position. I don't think hitting out as no.6 has to be the norm either. Waugh was hands down the most important Aussie bat of the nineties.
Sanga played a very high percent of his career at home which makes his underperformances in India and SA more stark and a deciding factor.
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_00_deathscar
International Regular
Waugh at his best was up there with Sachin and Lara.
Sanga wasn’t.
Sanga wasn’t.
TheJediBrah
Request Your Custom Title Now!
It's a criticism that ignores all context. Sure, he had downhill skiing innings, but he's rated highly because so many of his best innings were genuinely match-winning. It's not like he always came in at 3/200 and made a meaningless 100*, he regularly his team after early losses often singlehandedly.
One of the reasons Aus did as well as they did in the mid-to-late 90s was because of him. He was the cake, not the icing.
Burgey
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You didn't watch a lot of cricket in the 90s did you?
trundler
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Would rather have a #6 that bats like Laxman than a pest like Waugh or Chanderpaul. The latter 2 were obviously better batsmen skill wise but should be treated as 45 average batsman which they would be if they weren't terrible people. I'd take Clive Lloyd ahead of all of them though.