Steve Smith vs Sachin Tendulkar

[Prince EWS]

Clive Lloyd's WI had 35% of their matches drawn.

Even Ricky Ponting's Auz who had the lowest percentage of draws still had 17%.

Yes. Rare.

The vast majority of matches are determined by who played better rather than scoring rates.

And of the draws there a bunch were not actually salvageable due to weather, pitches or crap bowling attacks.

When you're looking at such a small percentage of draws and many of them can't be changed anyway, it's just postfacto justifation for pseudo-macho bullshit.

There are actually good reasons to rate Viv really highly. Strike rate is starry-eyed voodoo.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Yes. Rare.

The vast majority of matches are determined by who played better rather than scoring rates.

And of the draws there a bunch were not actually salvageable due to weather, pitches or crap bowling attacks.

When you're looking at such a small percentage of draws and many of them can't be changed anyway, it's just postfacto justifation for pseudo-macho bull****.

There are actually good reasons to rate Viv really highly. Strike rate is starry-eyed voodoo.

Your face is voodoo

 

[Bolo.]

I would contend that this defensive approach, just playing good enough but no really pushing all buttons every game for a win, probably cost SA key moments of crucial games, and series, where that killer instinct was needed. There are so many examples, SA in England in 98 or the last test of the 93/94 series at home against Australia or 2nd test of the 96 home series against Australia or last test of the 97 series in Australia.

It definitely doesn't work against superior teams where you need to be aggressive to even have a chance.

OFC there are going to be series where going slower was a negative. RSA swung away series in at least SL, England, AUS due to going slow in Kallis' time, plus whatever else I can't remember and home series.

 

[Jacob Boris]

Smith is 34, if he plays for another 6 years he will definitely take over Sachin.

 

[Prince EWS]

Your face is voodoo

Hoodoo?

 

[ataraxia]

There are actually good reasons to rate Viv really highly. Strike rate is starry-eyed voodoo.

In non-starry-eyed voodoo matters, I genuinely just rate Viv for #aura. The sort of player who would be more likely to score runs against the very best, which I really rate.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes. Rare.

The vast majority of matches are determined by who played better rather than scoring rates.

Scoring faster does factor in to who plays better. It is not like the opposition is indifferent to scoring rates except for time left in the game the way you are presenting. Aggression in batting bleeds into the entire approach of a team and impacts how the opposition responds. BazBall is just the latest example.

There are actually good reasons to rate Viv really highly. Strike rate is starry-eyed voodoo.

What are you talking about?

Vivs exceptional SR and the ability to inflict damage in a quick time was the huge reason behind his intimidation factor and set him apart. If he did power hitting but batted at Boycotts rate he wouldn't scare anyone.

You really are presenting points that don't line up with how the game is actually played by human beings subject to things like pressure and momentum.

 

[Prince EWS]

Scoring faster does factor in to who plays better. It is not like the opposition is indifferent to scoring rates except for time left in the game the way you are presenting. Aggression in batting bleeds into the entire approach of a team and impacts how the opposition responds. BazBall is just the latest example.


Hat are you talking about?

Vivs exceptional SR and the ability to inflict damage in a quick time was the huge reason behind his intimidation factor and set him apart. If he did power hitting but batted at Boycotts rate he wouldn't scare anyone.

You really are presenting points that don't line up with how the game is actually played by human beings subject to things like pressure and momentum.

Yeah I think this whole post is basically just hokus pokus.

You are one of the greatest posters CW has ever had IMO but unfortunately for your knowledge, demeanour, tact, writing skills etc you have the worst cricket philosophy all time. Only number11 is worse and I think he might even just be a parody of you.

 

[Prince EWS]

In non-starry-eyed voodoo matters, I genuinely just rate Viv for #aura. The sort of player who would be more likely to score runs against the very best, which I really rate.

I don't think #aura means that.

It means that he has a psychological affect on the opposition. Unfortunately in these cases I think the aura mostly has a psychological affect on the spectators and makes them rate the guy higher than he deserves.

Ability to go up a higher level than regular Tests is a really interesting topic I'm actually writing a paper on, but it doesn't apply to actual Tests. I agree Viv would be good at an imaginery higher level.

 

[h_hurricane]

Smith is 34, if he plays for another 6 years he will definitely take over Sachin.

I would bet against it, if he plays that long. His case will be good if he could maintain his career stats better than Sachin's for the next 1-2 years and then retire like a genius just when his stats could possibly fall off the cliff.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah I think this whole post is basically just hokus pokus.

You are one of the greatest posters CW has ever had IMO but unfortunately for your knowledge, demeanour, tact, writing skills etc you have the worst cricket philosophy all time. Only number11 is worse and I think he might even just be a parody of you.

I think this might be our point of difference, in that I think you are viewing things in the abstract without considering what a higher scoring rate entails.

Counterattacks in cricket, where you have a quick scoring session following early wickets, are a thing.

A high scoring over breaking the tension of runs drying up is a thing.

Bowlers getting a wicket on a rash shot after several maidens are a thing.

Batsmen regularly rotating the strike to build partnerships is a thing.

A team's shoulders sagging collectively after their main bowler is attacked is a thing.

Scoring rate is not some arbitrary metric but has real implications in play. Having that extra gear at ones disposal is almost always an invaluable asset.

 

[Coronis]

Eh I mean averaging amongst all teams its about equal 1/3 win, loss and draw.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think #aura means that.

It means that he has a psychological affect on the opposition. Unfortunately in these cases I think the aura mostly has a psychological affect on the spectators and makes them rate the guy higher than he deserves.

Ability to go up a higher level than regular Tests is a really interesting topic I'm actually writing a paper on, but it doesn't apply to actual Tests. I agree Viv would be good at an imaginery higher level.

Bro, your issue is assuming that because something can't be easily quantified it doesn't exist.

The aura is something felt by players based on countless testimonies, not just spectators.

Cricket is played by humans who are influenced by all these things, not robots, with the exception of Kallis.

 

[Socerer 01]

tbf if bowlers from then were intimidated and demotivated by Viv smashing it then the bowling standards then were not good enough to be comparable to today which is the elephant in the room nobody will want to discuss because nostalgia good here

 

[Jacob Boris]

I would bet against it, if he plays that long. His case will be good if he could maintain his career stats better than Sachin's for the next 1-2 years and then retire like a genius just when his stats could possibly fall off the cliff.

Its upto him if he really wants to kill the debate of Test Cricket ATG, he will require a long career. Otherwise if he retires in 1-2 years he'd still be a great test player but maybe not the ATG

 

[Socerer 01]

Its upto him if he really wants to kill the debate of Test Cricket ATG, he will require a long career. Otherwise if he retires in 1-2 years he'd still be a great test player but maybe not the ATG

depends on your definition of atg

 

[subshakerz]

tbf if bowlers from then were intimidated and demotivated by Viv smashing it then the bowling standards then were not good enough to be comparable to today which is the elephant in the room nobody will want to discuss because nostalgia good here

Yeah it's not like Cummins wasn't affected by getting smashed by Crawley recently.

Viv was ahead of his time. But even watching clips you can tell he was also unique as he combined power and timing with exceptional reflexes.

 

[kyear2]

Its upto him if he really wants to kill the debate of Test Cricket ATG, he will require a long career. Otherwise if he retires in 1-2 years he'd still be a great test player but maybe not the ATG

How is he not already an ATG?

 

[Coronis]

If bowlers were “intimidated” by Viv and he still only averaged 50 thats pretty ****. If they were as “intimidated” by Chappell, Gavaskar, Miandad etc. they would all have even better records than him than they already do.

 

[subshakerz]

If bowlers were “intimidated” by Viv and he still only averaged 50 thats pretty ****. If they were as “intimidated” by Chappell, Gavaskar, Miandad etc. they would all have even better records than him than they already do.

Why you say 'intimidated'? The bowlers of that era themselves attest to that, and the time he was intimidating them he was averaging in the 55-60 range.

And it's a moot point since the other bats didn't intimidate the bowlers the same way.