Stephen Fleming is the worst ever

[michael_vaughan]

hi

thats wat iam sayin hes class and is getting beter and better

jane

 

[Mingster]

yes and despite all that he still averages 38....ooh the hallmark of a brilliant test batsman, even tresco averages more.

And yet you name Harmisson (average over 40) in your ODI World XI?

 

[michael_vaughan]

[aplauding]

jane

 

[superkingdave]

And yet you name Harmisson (average over 40) in your ODI World XI?

Sorry but where does he name Harmison innhis ODI world XI, this is it from the other thread

tendulkar
fleming(c)
kallis
sarwan
rhodes(if fit and available)/yuvraj
flintoff
klusener
pollock
boucher(w/k)
akhtar
murali

Don't see Harmison!

 

[MoxPearl]

alot of you people look FAR in to averages..

Humans are dynamic and they change all the time..

 

[tooextracool]

nope im not the sort of person who looks solely at averages....but i think most people who have followed flemings entire test career would agree with me that fleming is not 'brilliant'

 

[michael_vaughan]

well i hant really followed all of it so cant comment but wat i have seenhes class

jane

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Fleming is a very good batsman but is not an excellent batsman. Nor is he a brilliant batsman. I think even he would say the same.

 

[Protea]

I think he has said somewhere that he's not a brilliant batsman. He still performs when he's required to. Like the time at the Wanderers in 2003 WC. That still haunts me

 

[Langeveldt]

I think he has said somewhere that he's not a brilliant batsman. He still performs when he's required to. Like the time at the Wanderers in 2003 WC. That still haunts me

That was a supehuman effort.. It seemed strangely inevitable though, SA are cursed when it comes to WC mode...

 

[Protea]

Tell me about it I thought that day was gonna be too good to be true...but noooo. Hopefully Smith has gotten those memories pushed into the back of the teams' minds.

 

[marc71178]

Fleming is a very good batsman but is not an excellent batsman. Nor is he a brilliant batsman. I think even he would say the same.

What he does do is make the best of his abilities (a bit like when he captains, he makes the best out of his team)

What more can you ask of someone than that?

 

[BlackCap_Fan]

The fact is that New Zealand don't have a Hayden at the top or a McGrath with the ball.

Spot for spot:
Fleming v Ponting
32.40 v 42.42

Astle v Hayden
34.31 v 42.07

Marshall v Martyn
46.25 v 41.23

Styris/McMillan v Lehmann
27.62/27.33 v 39.72

McCullum v Gilchrist
20.03 v 35.73

Bowlers:
Vettori v Warne
37.81 v 25.82

Tuffey v McGrath
28.64 v 22.60

Quite simply Australia has a superior team. The superior team may not win every time, but over a long period, the cream rises. To compare Ricky Ponting's captaincy to Fleming's on the basis of head-to-head meetings is ridiculous. Have Fleming captain Australia and then come talk. It's a telling thing that Fleming wouldn't even make the Australian best XI.

Told you.

And, why does everyone mock him when he gets out for 99? Is that one run going to make the other team think "Omg, these guys are invincible, we should just fall over and die"?

Fleming puts his effort in with the bat all the time. Same with captaincy.

You can't ask any man for more than that, you'd have better luck asking Chris Martin to get a century.

 

[Mingster]

Mr Mxyzptlk,

What a load of selective statiscal quoting!

You failed to label Jacob Oram's excellent ODI bowling stats, or Shane Bond's for that matter. Daniel Vettori's average is high, very high in fact, but he has a good RPO, same as Harris.

 

[Mingster]

Mr Mxyzptlk,

What a load of selective statiscal quoting!

You failed to label Jacob Oram's excellent ODI bowling stats, or Shane Bond's for that matter. Daniel Vettori's average is high, very high in fact, but he has a good RPO, same as Harris. Also, Scott Styris' battng average in the last few years, would rate right up there with Symonds and Martyn. Something like over 40 with the ball and under 25 with the ball.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Mr Mxyzptlk,

What a load of selective statiscal quoting!

You failed to label Jacob Oram's excellent ODI bowling stats, or Shane Bond's for that matter. Daniel Vettori's average is high, very high in fact, but he has a good RPO, same as Harris. Also, Scott Styris' battng average in the last few years, would rate right up there with Symonds and Martyn. Something like over 40 with the ball and under 25 with the ball.

And how would that suit my point? The point was indicating Australia a better side than New Zealand, not slagging off New Zealand. It was defence of the beloved Fleming.

Also, who would I have matched Oram with? Gillespie? He has a better bowling and slightly worse batting average.

Added to that, Styris' batting in the 2 years...

2x100
6x50
Avge: 35.70

Good, but Symonds...

1x100
8x50
Avge: 46.79

Martyn...

2x100
13x50
Avge: 44.30

Perhaps you should pay more attention to the nature of the post before commenting.

 

[Mingster]

What a load of bull about having to match Oram with a similar player of his averages. If that is so, why did you compare Styris to Martyn?

 

[tooextracool]

and that is precisely why this method of comparing random players from both sides is impractical......

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

What a load of bull about having to match Oram with a similar player of his averages. If that is so, why did you compare Styris to Martyn?

That's not the point I was making! Besides, it doesn't really matter who I compare Styris to, the Australian version is better. Please take the time to read what I am about to say this time instead of blindly contradicting it:

1/ Fleming is a very good captain.

2/ You can't compare head-to-head matchups between Australia and New Zealand as the basis for saying Ponting is better than Fleming because Australia has a superior cricket side.

Was that clear this time?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

and that is precisely why this method of comparing random players from both sides is impractical......

Captain v captain.
Best opener v best opener.
Grafter v grafter (would have used Bevan for Australia if he were still around)
Batsman who bowls a bit v batsman who bowls a bit.
Wicketkeeper v wicketkeeper.
Lone spinner v lone spinner.
Stock/strike bowler v stock/strike bowler.

Oh how poor of me. So random.