State Shield Final/S.O.O

[Kent]

On second thoughts, is Hitchcock really up to it?

I haven't really got any alternatives, but if Bond is never going to be quite the same weapon he was, I think we'll be forced to develop Butler long-term. Either that or bring in Bruce Martin and play two spinners on a regular basis.

Every other option I've seen has 'domestic seamer' written all over them.

 

[Mingster]

The question will be whether the selectors are prepared to allow Ryder back into the frame after his mis-conduct late last month.

He was apparently meant to be picked ahead of Cumming for that 5 match series in Pakistan but lost his place.
I'd say he's now fallen past Michael Papps too but I think the selectors will still pick Ryder in the hope that he'll play his natural game as an opener.

That article never really concluded that Ryder was selected ahead of Cumming.

Ryder was made about too much last season regarding his OD form, he only averaged 24.

 

[Mingster]

Yeah but think about it mate, is Sinclair really in contention to open for NZ?

If this had just been Nth v Sth then yeah maybe..but this is a trial match so therefore I can't see NZ picking Sinclair to open unless they're really stranded for options.

But is anyone apart from Papps in contention for the NZ opening slot?

Nevin has had an average season again and James Marshall has been nothing short of apalling. Terrible.

 

[Mingster]

I just don't see the point in a trial match where possibly Chris Cairns & Jacob Oram are on the same team and likewise with Craig Cumming & Michael Papps. Probably the 2 positions where the players in contention need to be on opposite teams.

Unless Chris Cairns pulls finger with the bat, I can't see NZ playing both Cairns & Oram in England...i personally think NZ should go for the bowling all-rounder if Oram is starting to gain confidence with the bat.
Not Adams...maybe someone like Paul Hitchcock or Matthew Walker who are capable of scoring a few runs, but their main priority will be to bowl well.

I really don't know where Astle will be batting...the selectors seem to think opening is now out of the question, but Marshall is established at #3.

Does anyone agree with:

Michael Papps
Stephen Fleming
Hamish Marshall
Nathan Astle
Scott Styris
Craig McMillan
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Daniel Vettori
Kyle Mills
Daryl Tuffey

Now..I think we need the extra bowling option in there...so who do you take out? It's either got to be Papps or someone in the middle order.

Nathan Astle
Stephen Fleming
Hamish Marshall
Scott Styris
Craig McMillan
Jacob Oram
Brendon McCullum
Daniel Vettori
Kyle Mills
Paul Hitchcock
Daryl Tuffey

That side would be my choice providing that Oram & McCullum are scoring more runs...Vettori is probably good enough to bat #8 & Mills & Hitchcock are more than capable of scoring some runs too.

I agree with the first team you listed but take out Papps and play Cairns, but defineitly not the second. You have enough bowling options in your first team, having Scott Styris as your 6th option. That's enough methinks. Itworked for us throughout the series. We don't want to do what we did in the World Cup by playing 7+ bowlers now.

If Cairns is back to his best, why can't you play Oram and Cairns together? Play Cairns as the allrounder, and Oram can get into the XI based on his bowling alone.

Hitchcork is bloody overrated. His 'range of slower ball's is useless and still goes for over 6 an over in the SS games. Kyle Mills looked very good for Auckland.

 

[Mingster]

The teams have just been announced.

Black Caps selection manager, Sir Richard Hadlee, has announced the two teams chosen by the Black Caps Selection Panel for the State of Origin match to be played next Sunday February 8 at Jade Stadium, Christchurch.

Thirteen players have been named in the South Island team because Canterbury's last two matches of the State Shield have been washed out preventing the NZC Medical Panel from being able to properly assess Nathan Astle's progress.

Therefore an extra player has been named in the South Island team as cover for Astle.

Jeff Wilson, Lou Vincent and Mathew Walker were not considered because of injury.

Hadlee said he thought the two teams looked evenly matched.

"The South Island team has a formidable looking top order. Stephen Fleming has been in outstanding form and with Nathan Astle coming back and the in form State Canterbury Wizards players to follow they have a lot of firepower.

"The North Island has the Black Caps bowling line up and some outstanding multi-skilled cricketers. I'm sure there will be some intriguing individual battles."

Black Caps Coach John Bracewell will name the Black Caps One Day International squad for the first match against South Africa (to be played Eden Park on Friday 13 February) at a press conference at the conclusion of the match.

In alphabetical order the two teams representing the North and South Islands are:

North Island
1. Ian Butler
2. Chris Cairns
3. Kyle Mills
4. Hamish Marshall
5. Chris Nevin
6. Jacob Oram
7. Scott Styris
8. Mathew Sinclair
9. Ross Taylor
10. Daryl Tuffey
11. Daniel Vettori
12. Michael Mason

South Island
1. Nathan Astle
2. Craig Cumming
3. Stephen Cunis
4. Stephen Fleming
5. Peter Fulton
6. Chris Harris
7. Chris Martin
8. Brendon McCullum
9. Craig McMillan
10. Warren McSkimming
11. Michael Papps
12. Aaron Redmond
13. Andrew Schwass

 

[Kent]

No room for the leading wicket-taker. Perhaps no room for the leading run-scorer either!

310 has to be about a par score against that SI attack. 310 is also a par score given Fleming's current appetite for homemade pies, so it should be an entertaining game.

 

[Mingster]

Likely starting lineups:

North Island
C Nevin +
M Sinclair
H Marshall
R Taylor
S Styris
C Cairns
J Oram
K Mills
D Vettori
D Tuffey
I Butler



South Island
M Papps
S Fleming
N Astle or C Cumming
P Fulton
C McMillan
C Harris
B McCullum +
A Redmond
W McSkimming
A Schwass
C Martin

Bradley Scott wasn't that impressive considering his RPO was crap to say the least.

Interesting to see Adams and Wiseman being left out of the teams. Probably shows the former is out of contention for the South African Tour. Aaron Redmond has been preffered as the South Island spinner ahead of Wiseman, son of Rodney Redmond. Handy legspinning allrounder from Canterbury.

 

[anzac]

yeah well it will hardly come as any surprise to anyone for me to say that I'm not overly impressed with either the format or the squads.........

so far as a trial goes or "last chance to impress the selectors" I'd say that in essence these squads are about as useful as that which went to PAK with the inclusion of the current ODI players!!!

I fail to see the logic .........these squads do nothing to address the current bowling / batting issues........

why select Sinclair as probable opener when he has been selected on the basis of his form batting at No3 / 4 - even tho' he has opened in ODIs some time ago???????

why have the entire current ODI bowling attack in the same side - not only resulting in a current squad members missing out (Mason?), but also other 'contenders' also missing the opportunity to impress - B Martin, B Walker...........

why not select the current top domestic wicket taker (in both forms of the game) - his RPO in State Shield is lower than C Martin?????

why select Redmond - his Limited Overs record is nothing - 1 wicket this season and his career ODI bowling average is over 45???? likewise I fail to see the point in selecting McSkimming or Schwass as a trial ahead of other bowlers - again the failings of a Nth / Sth based 'trial' IMO..........as neither are amongst the top wicket takers & as such would be very very longshots to gain squad selection.....

so far as potential lineups go I like the idea of head to head battles re roles etc, but positional changes in a trial game are a waste of time IMO unless this is their purpose

eg Styris v McMillan at No5 - why have Taylor at No4 in the team as Styris currently bats there in ODIs? OK if they are looking to move him down the order for Astle's return, but what if Taylor / Fulton gets MOTM ????

I also find it difficult to imagine that they would select Cumming & then not play him as opener with Fleming as there are other middle order alternatives IMO - let alone that this would mean breaking up the current (if not convincing) ODI opening batsmen.......

in reality I see very few opportunities to impress the selectors & very few contenders with any realistic chance..........IMO the only 'possibles' with any real chance to impress would be Papps, Fulton & Taylor - all batsmen and 2 middle order (which will be further congested following Astle's return)..........none of the Sth bowlers have a snowball's chance apart from Martin IMO..........
it may be a good game to watch, but if they want a trial then I suggest they go back to the drawing boards & have another go...........

I actually like the idea of trial matches for both forms of the game..........but only if done objectively.....

 

[Tim]

I too, like the idea of a trial match. But definately not in the form of a Nth v Sth match.

There will be some players out there who should feel very unlucky & are probably victims of the fact that some players have only been picked to make up the numbers i.e Andrew Schwass, Warren McSkimming, Chris Nevin etc.

 

[Tim]

I find it extremely interesting that the Nth Island didn't pick Jesse Ryder. I know he hasn't played much this season, but that was the exact same scenario last year.

He must really be down in the dumps with NZ cricket at the moment.

 

[Tim]

It really comes down to:

A weak Sth bowling attack bowling to a weak Nth batting lineup
A strong Nth bowling attack bowling to a strong Sth batting lineup

When really, each department for both sides should be fairly strong considering this is a trial match.
I'm still going to go along & watch the match, but its flawed & I think we'll get some entertainment..but im not sure what the selectors are going to learn from all this.

 

[anzac]

as I said - not much of a 'trial'............

:!( :duh:

 

[Mingster]

It really comes down to:

A weak Sth bowling attack bowling to a weak Nth batting lineup
A strong Nth bowling attack bowling to a strong Sth batting lineup

When really, each department for both sides should be fairly strong considering this is a trial match.
I'm still going to go along & watch the match, but its flawed & I think we'll get some entertainment..but im not sure what the selectors are going to learn from all this.

The North batting order weakness is only the openers. Nevin and Sinclair. The latter is in good form and has notched up a few 50s this season and averaging in the mid-forties. Not bad.

The middle-order is strong, Taylor, Styris, Cairns, Oram and Mills. That's pretty solid.

 

[Tim]

Taylor is unproven against a good bowling attack, Styris is in no form at all & Mills has been reasonable with the bat against average bowling attacks.
So it may look strong on paper, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is knocked over either.

 

[Vettori]

I don't see how Redmond gets in ahead of Wiseman where Redmond hasn't made the Canty team much this season and isn't even a wicket taker at first class level.
He seem to be more of a batsmen than a leggie to me when I have seen him on tv.

Dubious also that people have mentioned with a number of players will be playing out their normal positions and so on.

 

[Tim]

The fact that Paul Wiseman has played every State Shield game & Aaron Redmond has only played 1 suggests to me that Wiseman will now never play for NZ again (in ODI's anyway).

I cannot believe the selectors were that desperate to leave Wiseman out.

 

[southern man]

Wiseman is a North player.

 

[cbuts]

i personally would rather see a nth V sth game than a trial game. trail games generally loose favour with the public and sponsers - eg all black trials dont happen anymore. ryder played all the one dayers for centrl last year, and has only played one this year, dont think they could pick him. taylor has dominated against all the attacks in first class level this year, so its the logical next step tim

 

[anzac]

i personally would rather see a nth V sth game than a trial game. trail games generally loose favour with the public and sponsers - eg all black trials dont happen anymore. ryder played all the one dayers for centrl last year, and has only played one this year, dont think they could pick him. taylor has dominated against all the attacks in first class level this year, so its the logical next step tim

the point is the selectors reportedly said they wanted to use this match as a trial & 'last chance to impress..." etc....

how can they really expect to do so when half the players are the current ODI squad, and half the remaining players are past squad members - Sinclair, Harri & Nevin - if the selectors don't know enough about them to be able to judge their form from the recent Shield games (presuming they attended), then they never will!!!

further more as I posted earlier the reality is that perhaps only Martin in the Sth bowling attack is a real contender - the rest make up the numbers........

all in all it is not really much of a trial as it has been reported as being.......they should have left out the current ODI squad IMO.......this solves nothing (again)......

 

[southern man]

Here is my bitch and moan about South selections

Scott not making the south island team is dumb, What did Cunis and Schwass show in their seasons that Scott didnt?

Scott
RPO:4.94
Average 21
Wickets 19
Strike rate:26

Schwass:
RPO:4.64
Average: 35.5
Wickets:9
Strike rate: 45.7

Cunis:
RPO:4.55
Average:46.85
Wickets:7
Strike rate:61.7

Also Morland vs Redmond where there is no comparison

Morland
Wickets: 12
Rpo: about 4
Average 31

Redmond: wickets 1
RPO: 7
Average 44