Starc vs Pattinson vs Cummins

[Himannv]

Starc pretty comfortably in LO formats I think. I'd still have Patto over the other two for tests, despite him being a Victorian.

Where does Harris fit in when he returns from injury? I remember he was brilliant when he played us here so he'll probably challenge for a test spot. What's he like as an ODI bowler though?

I rate Starc as our best limited overs bowler, by quite a distance. I personally wouldn't pick Patto for ODIs, but he'd be my first choice Test quick with Siddle and the 'Haus.

Test: Siddle, Hilf, Patto
ODI/T20: Starc, Cummins, ??? (given we're playing Watson, Christian, Hogg/Doherty and Maxwell as bowlers too)

Would you say Cummins is the next best ODI bowler after Starc?

 

[Valer]

Where does Harris fit in when he returns from injury? I remember he was brilliant when he played us here so he'll probably challenge for a test spot. What's he like as an ODI bowler though?



Would you say Cummins is the next best ODI bowler after Starc?

Harris had a gun streak in 2010 but has only had OK. returns outside that (very few matches too for that matter.)

Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Starc Mckay Watson then its a bit up in the air. (Johnson, Hilf, Cummins, 20 overs from part timers ect.)

Don't watch enough t20 to comment on that but iirc Mckay was less than amazing and Cummins has been a bit better in the shorter format.

 

[Dan]

Where does Harris fit in when he returns from injury? I remember he was brilliant when he played us here so he'll probably challenge for a test spot. What's he like as an ODI bowler though?



Would you say Cummins is the next best ODI bowler after Starc?

Ryan Harris has to be next cab off the rank IMO. Pattinson, Hilf and Siddle have all done well enough to not be dropped, but Harris would have to come in ahead of Cummins and Starc.

Now that Lee's gone, Cummins' only competition comes from Hilf, Pattinson, Harris, Siddle and McKay (in terms of capped specialists). Hilf, Pattinson and Siddle aren't very good ODI bowlers in my book. Harris rarely plays ODIs now (despite his gun record) because of his less-than-gun injury record, and McKay is prone to brain explosions and overs full of waist high full tosses.

Starc --> Cummins/Harris --> McKay as the order, IMO. Would like to see Alister McDermott get a crack, however.

 

[Ruckus]

The test line up has to be Siddle, Hilf and Pattinson (assuming Harris is injured, otherwise he should be first pick imo). Have a bad feeling though that Hilf won't continue his good form against India, and will end up being a bit of a liability again. If that ends up being the case then the order for me would be Cummins and then Starc.

 

[Spark]

Harris just ruled himself out of the SA tests, I believe

 

[uvelocity]

you know what, if I was picking a test team today it would have starc in it for sure. Harris - stick a fork in him

 

[Spark]

Can we not do the stupid of picking Test teams on ODI form

 

[Daemon]

you can do it sometimes if you keep things in perspective.

 

[Dan]

27 wickets @ 34 last year in the Shield.
7 wickets @ 21 in the CC.

If he performs in the first handful of Shield games he plays, coupled with the way he's improved over the last few months and the swing he's getting, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets into the Test XI.

Bowling beautifully, but I agree he needs some FC numbers to back him up first.

 

[benchmark00]

Pattinson is one of the first picked in the test team, not even a question.

 

[uvelocity]

Can we not do the stupid of picking Test teams on ODI form

It's more about how he is bowling, wouldn't have a clue what the number of wickets or average are. Great shape, great length, great accuracy and consistency. It's not like he's bowling slow bouncers and allsorts to prosper in ODI's. He's bowling properly.

I'd probably be ballsy and drop hilf despite his excellent season, run with the 2 young blokes starc and patto with big heart to run in all day with them.

 

[Ruckus]

27 wickets @ 34 last year in the Shield.
7 wickets @ 21 in the CC.

If he performs in the first handful of Shield games he plays, coupled with the way he's improved over the last few months and the swing he's getting, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets into the Test XI.

Bowling beautifully, but I agree he needs some FC numbers to back him up first.

The stats I can see on cricinfo say he got 12 wickets @ 29.25 in the FC matches?

 

[benchmark00]

It's more about how he is bowling, wouldn't have a clue what the number of wickets or average are. Great shape, great length, great accuracy and consistency. It's not like he's bowling slow bouncers and allsorts to prosper in ODI's. He's bowling properly.

I'd probably be ballsy and drop hilf despite his excellent season, run with the 2 young blokes starc and patto with big heart to run in all day with them.

Will these tasters never learn?

 

[uvelocity]

spikey has no internet, somebody has to say it

but seriously, I didn't say don't pick hilf last year, but he is getting closer to the finish than the start, someone will break down so it's not curtains. If it was siddle/hilf/? I'd go starc today. Might go patto tomorrow, and look forward to starc/patto/cummo together one day.

 

[Ruckus]

If it comes down to one position being open, you just can't play Starc over Pattinson in tests. The guy has had like one or two mediocre games, with the rest being awesome. Starc on the other hand hasn't been impressive really at all in the tests he has played (with exception to the WACA match), and is showing signs of promise in the shorter formats and perhaps overall. I don't see how that can be used to justify his position over Pattinson though...that's crazy.

 

[TumTum]

How things have changed. Before Starc did not deserve to even play for NSW and now he is the best...

I still have big doubts over Starc. I get the impression that he's mentally weak and needs to be looked after to improve his performance. When things don't go his away I'm afraid he'll turn into Johnson. Although I have seen signs of improvement in this T20WC where he showed some emotion for once... Great that he has improved his control heaps too, but I still don't trust it.

Cummins I think he feels he's already a superstar, or maybe that's just how he always was. Off-field he is very good with the media. And on-field he feels so comfortable. Like from what I seen in this T20WC he ALWAYS sets his own field, no group huddles, just him pointing fingers in a captain like fashion. And I think it was him that asked to bowl that super-over against Pakistan. He craves responsibility and looks like he really enjoys his cricket. This explains why he also kept bowling in SA despite being injured.

Regarding Cummins bowling, he still has plenty to improve, especially tactically. What I was concerned with is when they asked him why he was bowling short, he replied because it was a team plan to cramp batsman. So he executed (and almost always executes) what he set out, but he still yet has to learn which way he should bowl.

Also I don't like Cummins being given specific plans to bowl from someone else. I mean sure he can bowl short really well and was the only bowler that could best succeed at it in the current side (with Siddle, Johnson, Lee etc not there). But I think his recent poor results have been as a results of this poor tactics from the team, he would perform far better if he just did what he felt was best. Whereas Starc was most likely given orders to attack the stumps, which is the perfect tactics for him (and like I said before he performs best when guided properly), but as a results Cummins is given the short end of the stick.

Pattinson is so much like Siddle attitude wise. He's always at the batsman and will have a very good career. He certainly is the most developed bowler. But how much does he have left to improve? I would say far less than Cummins and Starc.


Regarding upcoming Tests, it looks like they'll be rotated...
Young pace aces Pattinson, Starc, Cummins to rotate through Tests | thetelegraph.com.au

 

[benchmark00]

Jesus.

 

[Cabinet96]

I'd definitely go with Pattinson.

 

[Viscount Tom]

The stats I can see on cricinfo say he got 12 wickets @ 29.25 in the FC matches?

That probably includes the Aus A tour too. He joined the team that lost the most overs to rain in the CC tbf reckon he'll have improved regardless with people like Sidebottom and Gillespie at Yorkshire though.

Jesus.

Crucified and therefore unavailable.

 

[benchmark00]

So this is an interesting read:

Not so fast: injury leads to curb on young guns

More so the sports science stuff, and how much of an impact that's going to have on how teams are going to be selected from now on.

Turns out it's almost been predetermined that Cummins won't play more than one test, max, this season.

Send these young fast bowlers to work in the coal mines for 6 months, toughen the ****s up.