South African Domestic Season 2015/16

[SeamUp]

Really hope Stephen Cook gets a national call-up sometime. He may be too old now, but he's really been batting like a champ over the past few seasons.

With you there Marius. Real slap in the face that he wasn't picked for the 'A' tour in the winter.

All he can do is keep scoring the runs.

Elgar & van Zyl are early doors into their partnership.

While Reeza Hendricks, Gihahn Cloete, David White & Aiden Markram are the future, I would say right now Cook should be leading this queue if anything happens to Elgar and van Zyl.

 

[SeamUp]

How is our depth looking ?

Test XI : Elgar (28) , Van Zyl (28), Faf (31) , Amla (32) , AB (31) , JP (31) , Vilas (30) , Philander (30), Harmer (26) , Steyn (32), M.Morkel (31)
2nd XI: Cook (33) , Hendricks (26), Rossouw (26), Bavuma (25) , de Bruyn (23) , Ramela (27), de Kock (23) , Morris (28) , Rabada (20), Piedt (25) , Abbott (28)

ODI players: Miller (26) , Behardien (32) , Zondo (25) , Phangiso (31) , Tahir (36)

SA 'A' Chasing Pack

Limited overs batsmen : Delport (26), Levi (27), Smuts (27), Ingram (30), van Jaarsveld (30), Adams (31)
all-rounders : Wiese (30), A.Morkel (34) , Parnell (26), McLaren (32)
spinners : Leie (29), Maharaj (25), von Berg (29)
seamers : de Lange (25) , Tsotsobe (31) , Viljoen (26) , Kleinveldt (32) , Hendricks (25), Paterson (26) , Shezi (28), Pillans (24)


Former National Academy looking to make regular steps up to SA 'A' squad

batsmen: White (24), Markram (21), Cloete (23), Vallie (26), Hamza (20), Rosier (21)
keeper: Second (26)/ Mosehle (25)/Klaasen (24), Fortuin (20)
all-rounders: Savage (22), Phehlukwayo (19)
spinner: Linde (24)
seamers : Dry (22), Olivier (23), Dupavillon (21), Engelbrecht (23), Williams (22), Moreki (22)


Possible 2016 Natioanl academy seamers : Ngidi (19), Le Roux (22), Dudgeon (20), Zuma (19), Kirsten (21), Sigwili (20)

SA U19

batsmen : Liam Smith (18), Matthew Breetzke (17)
keeper: Wandile Makwetu (16)
all-rounders : Wiaan Mulder (17), Dayyaan Galiem (18)
spinner: Sean Whitehead (18)
seamers : Brandon Glover (18), Lutho Sipamla (17), Conor McKerr (17)

 

[Marius]

Fairly good depth, I daresay.

To be honest, the biggest threat to our franchise cricket and the Proteas now is the strict quota rules - we may see a number of decent youngsters feel they have a better chance of making it as a professional cricketer is to try their luck abroad.

 

[SeamUp]

Fairly good depth, I daresay.

To be honest, the biggest threat to our franchise cricket and the Proteas now is the strict quota rules - we may see a number of decent youngsters feel they have a better chance of making it as a professional cricketer is to try their luck abroad.

Like we have seen with Curran's. Oldfield/Dial have played 2nd XI cricket in England but nowhere near our main franchise teams or even provincial. I also see Ryan Rickelton is wanted in New Zealand.

Obviously Roelof vd Merwe is high profile one recently.

On the depth, I am concerned about the batting.

I am mot sure I see a young AB, JP, Elgar, Rossouw, van Zyl who took to 4-day cricket as teenagers with a bang and stayed averaging in the 40's + ever since scoring big runs. Faf was highly rated but only got his head right or opportunities late. Miller debuted for the Dolphins while still in school and for the Proteas as a teenager.

While I like Markram, de Bruyn - they not quite the freak talents the above 5 were in doing what I said above & I would say these 2 are our biggest batting talents. Hamza has started his provincial career well and could be their level.

White, Cloete, Hendricks, Bavuma all average in 30's. Good players though but how good ? Test level ? Jury is out.

 

[brockley]

Looked at last years lists 1/3 of the players missing from last years cricket,seems like a revolution,is it working for the newbies.A hell of a lot of experienced lost.

 

[brockley]

Firdose Moonda on South African cricket's young prospects | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Seam Up wondering your thoughts on this article,bluff or promise?

 

[Rasimione]

What's happened to our supply of all-rounders? The ones on that list are not world clasd from the little I've seen.

 

[SeamUp]

Firdose Moonda on South African cricket's young prospects | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo

Seam Up wondering your thoughts on this article,bluff or promise?

There is some promise but tough to judge due to lack of opportunities to some and how strong our domestic cricket is right now with the quota rules. Having seen our domestic teams this season I can't say I can get too excited but we know how poor Moonda is. To be honest I am not sure if she can critically judge a cricket game when she is nowhere near as knowledgeable about the game as someone in her position should be.

There is just no way talent like Markram, de Bruyn, Savage, Dupavillon, Dry shouldn't be playing franchise cricket testing their abilities to push for higher honours now at their ages but with only 5 white players allowed how can you kick out senior white players and then pick young 'non white' talent as the sides will just be too inexperienced? For example you cannot tell me Moreki is in the best Cobras bowling line-up yet or Ngoepe is in their best 6 batsman or that Makhanya should be keeping out a Morne van Wyk or a Calvin Savage or that Craig Alexander will achieve anything in his mediocre career to keep out Dupavillon. de Bruyn gets left out of the Titans team yesterday in a batting line-up that contains Mosehle and Grant Mokoena ?

While we will produce individual talent (see de Kock & Rabada) I don't think the pathways to get to the first team tests their abilities when young cricketers as it did before the last 2 years or so.

I do question our new batting talent and if they can be anywhere near our current lot and what has come before them in the last 70 years.


Post '14 u19 WC and not available for '16 u19 WC - There is promise in players like Ryan Rickelton, Sibonelo Makhanya, Andile Phehlukwayo, Lwandiswa Zuma ,Lungi Ngidi & Keith Dudgeon. Particularly Rickelton, Phehlukwayo, Ngidi & Dudgeon but I can see Rickelton accepting advances from England or New Zealand. You can't just keep losing talent and think you can get away with it.

2014 WC winning side

MARKRAM - SA academy & playing for Northerns
FORTUIN - SA academy & playing for Warriors
SMITH - Playing for Western Province
OLDFIELD - lost Natal contract but played for Derby/Leics 2nd XI's
VALLI - Playing for Gauteng
DIAL - Playing for Gauteng but played for Gloucs/Kent 2nd XI's
BRUWER - Playing for FreeState
BOSCH - SA Academy
RABADA - Proteas
DILL - SA Academy & Boland but got injured
SIGWILI - Playing for EP & just got first Warriors call-up

* A top player like Zubayr Hamza missed out on the WC squad like David Miller did at his age but has stepped up better than others.

A player like Tshepo Moreki fell between these world cups & just came back from SA academy tour to SRL as leading wicket-taker & starting for Cobras due to new rules. Strike bowler Dupavillon as well who has put 2 very good back-to-back seasons in the 4-day format.

2012 SIDE who arguably had more ability than the winning side

BOWES - gone to play cricket in New Zealand
DE KOCK - Proteas
CLOETE - SA 'A' & Warriors
DE BRUYN - SA 'A' & Titans
ROSIER - SA academy & Knights
PILLAY - Contracted to the Lions
SAVAGE - SA academy & Dolphins
SUBRAYEN - SA academy & Dolphins
DRY - SA 'A' & Knights
FRYLINCK - Plays for Northern Cape
WILLIAMS - SA academy & Cobras

The 2010 side was not great

David White, Cody Chetty have gone on to play SA 'A' & Dominic Hendricks & Rabian Engelbrecht have been with the SA Academy. Colin Ackermann is around & Devon Conway missed out on this squad and is doing alright in senior cricket from the age group.


2008 side in the final highly thought of like 2012 side but not sure too many of them can be happy with where they are now ?

JJ SMUTS - Warriors regular
MALAN - Western Province
ROSSOUW - Proteas
HENDRICKS - SA 'A'
VANDIAR - Natal
VALLIE - Warriors regular
PIENAAR - Knights regular
PARNELL - Proteas
ENGELBRECHT - Cobras
BARNES - Club cricket
ARNOLD - Gauteng

* Where Miller missed out.

 

[SeamUp]

What's happened to our supply of all-rounders? The ones on that list are not world clasd from the little I've seen.

Been struggling for some time. Suppose we can't expect to produce geniuses like we have but Wiese, Morkel, McLaren & Parnell just lack any sort of reliability.

 

[aussie]

There is some promise but tough to judge due to lack of opportunities to some and how strong our domestic cricket is right now with the quota rules. Having seen our domestic teams this season I can't say I can get too excited but we know how poor Moonda is. To be honest I am not sure if she can critically judge a cricket game when she is nowhere near as knowledgeable about the game as someone in her position should be.

There is just no way talent like Markram, de Bruyn, Savage, Dupavillon, Dry shouldn't be playing franchise cricket testing their abilities to push for higher honours now at their ages but with only 5 white players allowed how can you kick out senior white players and then pick young 'non white' talent as the sides will just be too inexperienced? For example you cannot tell me Moreki is in the best Cobras bowling line-up yet or Ngoepe is in their best 6 batsman or that Makhanya should be keeping out a Morne van Wyk or a Calvin Savage or that Craig Alexander will achieve anything in his mediocre career to keep out Dupavillon. de Bruyn gets left out of the Titans team yesterday in a batting line-up that contains Mosehle and Grant Mokoena ?

While we will produce individual talent (see de Kock & Rabada) I don't think the pathways to get to the first team tests their abilities when young cricketers as it did before the last 2 years or so.

I do question our new batting talent and if they can be anywhere near our current lot and what has come before them in the last 70 years.


Post '14 u19 WC and not available for '16 u19 WC - There is promise in players like Ryan Rickelton, Sibonelo Makhanya, Andile Phehlukwayo, Lwandiswa Zuma & Lungi Ngidi. Particularly Rickelton, Phehlukwayo, Ngidi but I can see Rickelton accepting advances from England or New Zealand. You can't just keep losing talent and think you can get away with it.

2014 WC winning side

MARKRAM - SA academy & playing for Northerns
FORTUIN - SA academy & playing for Warriors
SMITH - Playing for Western Province
OLDFIELD - lost Natal contract but played for Derby/Leics 2nd XI's
VALLI - Playing for Gauteng
DIAL - Playing for Gauteng but played for Gloucs/Kent 2nd XI's
BRUWER - Playing for FreeState
BOSCH - SA Academy
RABADA - Proteas
DILL - SA Academy & Boland but got injured
SIGWILI - Playing for EP & just got first Warriors call-up

* A top player like Zubayr Hamza missed out on the WC squad like David Miller did at his age but has stepped up better than others.

A player like Tshepo Moreki fell between these world cups & just came back from SA academy tour to SRL as leading wicket-taker & starting for Cobras due to new rules.

2012 SIDE who arguably had more ability than the winning side

BOWES - gone to play cricket in New Zealand
DE KOCK - Proteas
CLOETE - SA 'A' & Warriors
DE BRUYN - SA 'A' & Titans
ROSIER - SA academy & Knights
PILLAY - Contracted to the Lions
SAVAGE - SA academy & Dolphins
SUBRAYEN - SA academy & Dolphins
DRY - SA 'A' & Knights
FRYLINCK - Plays for Northern Cape
WILLIAMS - SA academy & Cobras

The 2010 side was not great

David White, Cody Chetty have gone on to play SA 'A' & Dominic Hendricks & Rabian Engelbrecht have been with the SA Academy. Colin Ackermann is around & Devon Conway missed out on this squad and is doing alright in senior cricket from the age group.


2008 side in the final highly thought of like 2012 side but not sure too many of them can be happy with where they are now ?

JJ SMUTS - Warriors regular
MALAN - Western Province
ROSSOUW - Proteas
HENDRICKS - SA 'A'
VANDIAR - Natal
VALLIE - Warriors regular
PIENAAR - Knights regular
PARNELL - Proteas
ENGELBRECHT - Cobras
BARNES - Club cricket
ARNOLD - Gauteng

That quota situation in S Africa always disgust me. Strong criticism of Moonda though, i read pretty much all her S Africa related articles and I think among popular S Africa cricketers like Stuart Hess, Luke Alfred, Neil Manthorp and Telford Voice - she holds her own pretty well with those guys.

 

[aussie]

How is our depth looking ?

Test XI : Elgar (28) , Van Zyl (28), Faf (31) , Amla (32) , AB (31) , JP (31) , Vilas (30) , Philander (30), Harmer (26) , Steyn (32), M.Morkel (31)
2nd XI: Cook (33) , Hendricks (26), Rossouw (26), Bavuma (25) , de Bruyn (23) , Ramela (27), de Kock (23) , Morris (28) , Rabada (20), Piedt (25) , Abbott (28)

ODI players: Miller (26) , Behardien (32) , Zondo (25) , Phangiso (31) , Tahir (36)

SA 'A' Chasing Pack

Limited overs batsmen : Delport (26), Levi (27), Smuts (27), Ingram (30), van Jaarsveld (30), Adams (31)
all-rounders : Wiese (30), A.Morkel (34) , Parnell (26), McLaren (32)
spinners : Leie (29), Maharaj (25), von Berg (29)
seamers : de Lange (25) , Tsotsobe (31) , Viljoen (26) , Kleinveldt (32) , Hendricks (25), Paterson (26) , Shezi (28), Pillans (24)


Former National Academy looking to make regular steps up to SA 'A' squad

batsmen: White (24), Markram (21), Cloete (23), Vallie (26), Hamza (20), Rosier (21)
keeper: Second (26)/ Mosehle (25)/Klaasen (24), Fortuin (20)
all-rounders: Savage (22), Phehlukwayo (19)
spinner: Linde (24)
seamers : Dry (22), Olivier (23), Dupavillon (21), Engelbrecht (23), Williams (22), Moreki (22)


Possible 2016 Natioanl academy seamers : Ngidi (19), Le Roux (22), Dudgeon (20), Zuma (19), Kirsten (21), Sigwili (20)

SA U19

batsmen : Liam Smith (18), Matthew Breetzke (17)
keeper: Wandile Makwetu (16)
all-rounders : Wiaan Mulder (17), Dayyaan Galiem (18)
spinner: Sean Whitehead (18)
seamers : Brandon Glover (18), Lutho Sipamla (17), Conor McKerr (17)

Interesting you didn't mention left-arm chinaman bowler Tarraiz Shamsai, saw a bit of his while watching the Caribbean Premier League T20 tournament & i thought he was fairly impressive.

Also I've always liked the look of Hardus Viljeon as fast bowler ever since seeing him in the now defunct Champions League T20.

 

[SeamUp]

That quota situation in S Africa always disgust me. Strong criticism of Moonda though, i read pretty much all her S Africa related articles and I think among popular S Africa cricketers like Stuart Hess, Luke Alfred, Neil Manthorp and Telford Voice - she holds her own pretty well with those guys.

Luke Alfred isn't bad. Hess/Manthorp are ok but Moonda and Vice are agenda driven. Also think she is lucky to have her position due to her husband and I still maintain she lacks the required knowledge.

 

[SeamUp]

Interesting you didn't mention left-arm chinaman bowler Tarraiz Shamsai, saw a bit of his while watching the Caribbean Premier League T20 tournament & i thought he was fairly impressive.

Also I've always liked the look of Hardus Viljeon as fast bowler ever since seeing him in the now defunct Champions League T20.

He is behind von Berg for the Titans and well down the pecking order in SA. He lacks consistency like so many young cricketers do nowadays.

Viljoen is quick (gets well into the 140s) & doesn't have an a clean action which may make him difficult to pick up at times but I still maintain he too lacks far too much to make it internationally.

 

[aussie]

Luke Alfred isn't bad. Hess/Manthorp are ok but Moonda and Vice are agenda driven. Also think she is lucky to have her position due to her husband and I still maintain she lacks the required knowledge.

Well yes I can tell she definitely is a big supporter of the quotas - that's an obvious agenda she has when you see her articles.

 

[aussie]

He is behind von Berg for the Titans and well down the pecking order in SA. He lacks consistency like so many young cricketers do nowadays.

Viljoen is quick (gets well into the 140s) & doesn't have an a clean action which may make him difficult to pick up at times but I still maintain he too lacks far too much to make it internationally.

Fair enough I thought Shamsai was better than Leile (spell check) in the CPL for example.

I obviously don't see enough SA domestic cricket to have the best judgement on Viljeon outside of the few T20 games i saw him in, but I don't think there is much difference between him and De Lange.

 

[SeamUp]

Fair enough I thought Shamsai was better than Leile (spell check) in the CPL for example.

I obviously don't see enough SA domestic cricket to have the best judgement on Viljeon outside of the few T20 games i saw him in, but I don't think there is much difference between him and De Lange.

Shamsi is still young of course but I think T20 cricket is his thing. Leie has his moments but I do fear for him at international level as well when tested under pressure. A performance like he put in yesterday shouldn't be one of a player who is close to SA ODI side really.

I am not a big fan de Lange so I wouldn't so you are too far off in saying they aren't too far off. I genuinely think de Lange only has T20 cricket to play for SA.

The remarkable thing about Rabada is not just his pace and that he keeps coming in at that pace but his accuracy is what sets him apart. Crazy good.

 

[brockley]

Yes I thought the article was a tad optimistic,Yes Rabada,but who else?
In 2 years hardly any of them play the first division,most of the 1's who are,are using the quota card.
We have the Futures league in Australia and it has been quite successful in getting the under 19's into the game,and some have moved in2 the first class system.
Would you say S Africa's 2nd division first class comp is better than our Futures Cup?(which has its own problems btw).

 

[brockley]

Luke Alfred: What Rabada's success says about South African cricket | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo
Another interesting article Seam Up.

 

[SeamUp]

Yes I thought the article was a tad optimistic,Yes Rabada,but who else?
In 2 years hardly any of them play the first division,most of the 1's who are,are using the quota card.
We have the Futures league in Australia and it has been quite successful in getting the under 19's into the game,and some have moved in2 the first class system.
Would you say S Africa's 2nd division first class comp is better than our Futures Cup?(which has its own problems btw).

I think there is some good talent around but opportunities are limited. Firstly because of only 6 teams and secondly the quota rules.

Because of the quota rules there are some good young 'white' players playing provincial but if you half good as a 'player of colour' you are being fast tracked to the franchise set-up. Obviously some undeserving because to me it is just window dressing that will make our cricket weaker.

I mean I can mention young Cloete and de Bruyn scoring hundreds and in de Bruyn's case a double hundred v England Lions which shows internationally these players are up there competing. Our academy side just beat Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka with some good performances. But I agree , opportunities to the best players need to be given and they may possibly have to go to the provincial system again so that can happen.

 

[SeamUp]

Luke Alfred: What Rabada's success says about South African cricket | Cricket | ESPN Cricinfo
Another interesting article Seam Up.

It is true. Our boys schools are fantastic in this country. You taught to be a gentleman and you get a discipline that is required for a young cricketer.

But even though they are saying that Rabada, Bavuma attended these schools not all other players who have made the proteas attended these schools.

Stiaan van Zyl attended a farming school only known for Rugby.
Dean Elgar attended a Catholic school who has no sporting tradition or certainly lost it.
Dale Steyn attened a school in the middle of nowhere in Phalaborwa. The same school Ethy Mbhalati went to who has been a long time domestic servant in the game. Same can be said for de Lange. Similar sort of school to these 2.
Morne Morkel attended Vereeninging. Not a lot going for that school.
Vernon Philander attended Ravensmead. Passion for the game there possibly beaten by rugby but not great facilities.

While ; Amla, AB, Faf, Miller, Bavuma, Rossouw, Vilas, de Kock, Harmer, Morris, Abbott, Rabada attended these boys schools with cricketing tradition it also was handed to them on a platter. That if you go to these schools you will become a Protea.

CSA can come up with these quotas but do they think things will improve over night ? They should continue the hard work behind the scenes and stop the excuses and the window dressing.