South African cricket racism issue: Report implicates Smith, Boucher and de Villiers

[TheJediBrah]

What if the structural racism caused him to lose faith in the system? He felt that South African cricket failed him and thus making him willing to sell out the game in order to achieve financial security?

Sounds like quotas is the only reason he was in the squad to begin with tbh. It's a bit rich to to claim you were discriminated against because of your race when if anything the opposite is more likely to be the case

 

[Dendarii]

He mentioned Johan louw in a separate incident. Presume boucher and louw are still involved in cricket and the rest aren't.

Yeah, I get that not currently being involved in cricket would be why other players weren't mentioned (although Allan Donald is currently the Free State coach), but those other guys should be held accountable as well.

 

[Dendarii]

Sounds like quotas is the only reason he was in the squad to begin with tbh.

I'm not so sure that was the case. It was a while ago, so I may be misremembering, but I think Tsolekile was regarded as one of the best keepers in the country from a technical perspective and he had worked on his batting to the point where his being earmarked as Boucher's successor was entirely justified on cricketing grounds.

If Boucher had never been injured then things would have probably gone according to plan with Tsolekile taking over the gloves. But AB having to step in caused a rethink as it opened up other possibilities if he carried on as keeper, which is obviously what they went with.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I'm not so sure that was the case. It was a while ago, so I may be misremembering, but I think Tsolekile was regarded as one of the best keepers in the country from a technical perspective and he had worked on his batting to the point where his being earmarked as Boucher's successor was entirely justified on cricketing grounds.

If Boucher had never been injured then things would have probably gone according to plan with Tsolekile taking over the gloves. But AB having to step in caused a rethink as it opened up other possibilities if he carried on as keeper, which is obviously what they went with.

My memories from around that time were that his batting was nowhere near good enough, and a lot of people (maybe mistakenly) thought he was a quota selection and there were better options available. For the life of me couldn't tell you who those better options were. The name Morne van Wyk sticks in my mind but I can't remember that much about him

 

[karan_fromthestands]

The issue with zondo one is. He was in the odi squad and elgar wasn't. You can't go dragging people from the test squad to play odi's. It shows clear bias. It can be debated whether it's racial bias but there is clear bias from AB.

You have to take tough calls at times. Given a situation, it's better to make bold calls instead of having regrets later on. Let's say England pick Adil Rashid out of the blue and select him over Leach to ensure that they have the best chance to win the Ashes, would that be racist? There are other things that might be wrong with such a decision but if the captain is certain that Rashid is the better option then it's fine to back him on that, winning is always the ultimate goal in sports.

 

[Starfighter]

The vibe I got at the time was like TJB's, that Tsolekile was a quota pick who was very lucky to be considered with his batting record, though that was by reading Cricinfo comments (remember those?). I think Vilas was another name who was thrown up at the time.

 

[Dendarii]

My memories from around that time were that his batting was nowhere near good enough, and a lot of people (maybe mistakenly) thought he was a quota selection and there were better options available. For the life of me couldn't tell you who those better options were. The name Morne van Wyk sticks in my mind but I can't remember that much about him

I seem to remember reading something which stated that he had been averaging about 40 for a couple of domestic seasons prior to that. I don't have a source for that, but if it's true then his selection over someone like Van Wyk wasn't so ridiculous.

But I could be completely wrong about that, so I'm not going to argue that he wasn't a quota selection. Just that there may be some doubt as to whether he was one if my hazy recollection is at all correct.

 

[Stefan9]

I seem to remember reading something which stated that he had been averaging about 40 for a couple of domestic seasons prior to that. I don't have a source for that, but if it's true then his selection over someone like Van Wyk wasn't so ridiculous.

But I could be completely wrong about that, so I'm not going to argue that he wasn't a quota selection. Just that there may be some doubt as to whether he was one if my hazy recollection is at all correct.

He was averaging 40 for a few seasons. To be fair he wasn't competing against guys averaging 40+ for the last spot. With ab keeping that spot went to jp or sometimes Rudolph. Not exactly super players who automatically deserved that spot above him.

 

[Stefan9]

You have to take tough calls at times. Given a situation, it's better to make bold calls instead of having regrets later on. Let's say England pick Adil Rashid out of the blue and select him over Leach to ensure that they have the best chance to win the Ashes, would that be racist? There are other things that might be wrong with such a decision but if the captain is certain that Rashid is the better option then it's fine to back him on that, winning is always the ultimate goal in sports.

Depends. Is Root flying adil in 2 days before the test and picking him above those already in the squad.
AB is guilty of clear bias whether it stretches to racism can be debated but he makes himself open to that interpretation through the bias he has shown.

 

[Tom Flint]

Favouring the better player? How dare he

 

[Stefan9]

Favouring the better player? How dare he

Debatable at best that elgar is a better white ball player.

 

[Tom Flint]

*was at the time
Especially since for that game they wanted someone to bowl a few hours

 

[Nintendo]

*was at the time
Especially since for that game they wanted someone to bowl a few hours

Still is, lol* neither where good/had many chances in international Whiteball and Elgar is better domestically.

 

[Nintendo]

Also, can we please talk about how https://www.google.com/amp/s/cricke...iminating-against-black-south-africa-players/ has represented this? No matter how we may feel about it, what Boucher said was utterly vile and far worse then AB and Smith's actions, racist intentions or not. If I read this headline and initial comment with no background I would have a completely misinformed view on the events.

 

[andruid]

My memory of Tsolekile was him being hyped as Boucher's heir apparent by Supersport, make some decent scores in the build up to some England test series, then inexplicably just not get picked.


Shame that him and some other 'upcoming cricketer of color rile models' got mixed up in match fixing.

 

[Anil]

boucher hiding behind "lack of knowledge of post-apartheid dynamics" is hilarious...what a mother****er!

 

[Isura]

Debatable at best that elgar is a better white ball player.

He's definitely the better white player.

 

[Heboric]

Aargh, time to avoid this thread like MyBroadbands New and Current Affairs section

 

[Bolo.]

I tend to avoid these racial type threads, but I remember Tsolekile well, cos I was following cricket hard in those days.

Thami was unlucky to miss out in the sense that he had been going at 40+ for a couple of seasons, and was considered the best keeper in the country at that point. Boucher should probably have been shown the door earlier, and Thami had been promised the role, which makes it worse.

Was lucky to be have been considered, in that he was getting a bit old to be the incumbent wk (lots of media debate at the time, but the general attitude was to pick someone younger), had been trash as a bat for most of his career (which begs the question on how much of his recent improvement was form, and how much was actual improvement).

Was really, really lucky to have been given a long term central contract, despite never playing. Plenty of actual players did not get one. It is hard to contextualise what that kind of money means to people who are used to numbers like big 3 or IPL earnings, cos it sounds like nothing, but in RSA domestic cricketer terms, it was huge.

On the whole, I think he did well. His pride got hurt a bit, but he got big chunk of a retirement package though a central contract that he didnt particularly deserve.

 

[Bolo.]

I am seeing some LA Elgar stats posted in this thread. Sr 82?? Average 42??? I am too drunk and lazy to search for it in thread.

I do remember that the time when Elgar was pushed into the team (maybe same time) he had a LA SR of between 76 and 78. Very confident of that. I think he was averaging 38, not completely confident of that.

His current stats sound tollerable, but I remember looking at them at the time and thinking WTF? AR argument that ppl raised earlier never occurred to me at the time, just saying what i remember.