South Africa team selection

[Marius]

Moonda's article making tortured puns about fairy tales was her magnum opus. Here it is in all its glory.

A happy ending to a fairytale series - ESPNcricinfo

Ah, yes. That was amazing. Boggles the mind that this was written by someone who actually writes for a living.

 

[Marius]

I remember that one. It was ESPNs brief attempt at cross promotion with a laxitive company. As noteworthy an attempt at stylistic genocide as that is, I still vote for this one:

Siphe Mzaidume - A migrant with a difference | Cricket | ESPNcricinfo

Because it doesn't really matter if there's any truth at all to a story. As long as it fits moonda agenda of sewing racial discord, it's gonna be printed.

She still hasn't retracted it.

Even after Antoinette Muller exposed him, and received death threats for her trouble.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...-death-threats-stalk-daily-maverick-reporter/

By all accounts Moonda is not a nice person (my cousin also used to work with her) and what she writes is mostly dreck. Still don't know how she actually got the Cricinfo gig, but I have it on good authority the fact that she is married to Telford Vice helped somewhat.

 

[SeamUp]

I would really like for them to give Muthusamy a go... I have just been impressed with his sudden improvement and I like his temperament.

Just a slight concern will be clearing the ropes with Sen.

It also seems we not as good as taking risks as others in these positions.

I honestly think we in a tough situation.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Moonda's article making tortured puns about fairy tales was her magnum opus. Here it is in all its glory.

A happy ending to a fairytale series - ESPNcricinfo

The Bavuma piece is definitely her peak.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_...da-imagines-temba-bavuma-journey-test-batsman

 

[StephenZA]

Just a slight concern will be clearing the ropes with Sen.

It also seems we not as good as taking risks as others in these positions.

I honestly think we in a tough situation.

Pretty much, lets be honest we were lucky for a long time with the Kluseners, Pollocks etc which gave us extended batting line-ups with people low down able to clear ropes. The number of LO games SA won that we should never have come close to winning was pretty good. That Klusener WC!!! I still think that Phehlukwayo is going to be pretty good long term... he has shown his ability to clear the ropes and I think his wicket to wicket bowling is good in LO format, but I don't think he is being given a proper role... the number of times he is being picked as a front line bowler which he is not good enough to do and then never bats?

SA players have never been the biggest risk takers, because of temperament but also because of how the media and public treat sporting teams. This recent series is a perfect example; we have picked and are playing fringe players that some would maybe make a B or even C side, along with some who have been shown as continuous underperformers, and we have been annihilated by a full strength Indian side, with Kohli in god mode.... but have I heard perspective in this and some of the rhetoric I`ve heard is ridiculous. Even some of our better future players are actually been left playing FC cricket (quite correctly). The invitation side playing against Aus in a few days has got many better prospects..... And this is being blamed on quotas as well? Name a quality player that will fix our 5 to 7 issues that is not being picked because of colour? We simply just don't have the options.

And if we want to start looking at problems at school and provincial level, there are many; but the best players are still breaking through. And on a side note how many times have I heard the stories about Markram only chance to get into the SA side was by becoming an opener (Ray Jennings apparently) and I've heard that story a number of times in the last few years for a few players? And now all we have is quality 1-4's and nothing else.... maybe a bit short sighted? In reality I don't think that SA cricket is collapsing and or that we will never have a great team again, SA sport is always strong but like any country sport goes through ups and downs.... in 10 years time we will be complaining about the lack of openers and all the middle order batsmen.

(Apologies for the long ramble rant.....)

 

[SteveNZ]

Moonda's article making tortured puns about fairy tales was her magnum opus. Here it is in all its glory.

A happy ending to a fairytale series - ESPNcricinfo

Geezus, I couldn't read past the first par. Literally, hurt too much.

I've been in a press box with her before, her behaviour is as skittled as her writing. This would've been 2012, SA tour to NZ, and Telford was doing a lot of the explaining the game to her while she loosely fashioned those thoughts into what a pre-schooler could call writing. Must be difficult following a side and knowing the reports you're getting are a bilious load of bile.

 

[Marius]

Geezus, I couldn't read past the first par. Literally, hurt too much.

I've been in a press box with her before, her behaviour is as skittled as her writing. This would've been 2012, SA tour to NZ, and Telford was doing a lot of the explaining the game to her while she loosely fashioned those thoughts into what a pre-schooler could call writing. Must be difficult following a side and knowing the reports you're getting are a bilious load of bile.

Never in the field of human endeavour has so much been written by one who knew so little.

 

[SeamUp]

Pretty much, lets be honest we were lucky for a long time with the Kluseners, Pollocks etc which gave us extended batting line-ups with people low down able to clear ropes. The number of LO games SA won that we should never have come close to winning was pretty good. That Klusener WC!!! I still think that Phehlukwayo is going to be pretty good long term... he has shown his ability to clear the ropes and I think his wicket to wicket bowling is good in LO format, but I don't think he is being given a proper role... the number of times he is being picked as a front line bowler which he is not good enough to do and then never bats?

SA players have never been the biggest risk takers, because of temperament but also because of how the media and public treat sporting teams. This recent series is a perfect example; we have picked and are playing fringe players that some would maybe make a B or even C side, along with some who have been shown as continuous underperformers, and we have been annihilated by a full strength Indian side, with Kohli in god mode.... but have I heard perspective in this and some of the rhetoric I`ve heard is ridiculous. Even some of our better future players are actually been left playing FC cricket (quite correctly). The invitation side playing against Aus in a few days has got many better prospects..... And this is being blamed on quotas as well? Name a quality player that will fix our 5 to 7 issues that is not being picked because of colour? We simply just don't have the options.

And if we want to start looking at problems at school and provincial level, there are many; but the best players are still breaking through. And on a side note how many times have I heard the stories about Markram only chance to get into the SA side was by becoming an opener (Ray Jennings apparently) and I've heard that story a number of times in the last few years for a few players? And now all we have is quality 1-4's and nothing else.... maybe a bit short sighted? In reality I don't think that SA cricket is collapsing and we will never have a great team again, SA sport is always strong but like any country sport goes through ups and downs.... in 10 years time we will be complaining about the lack of openers and all the middle order batsmen.

(Apologies for the long ramble rant.....)

At the end of the day though this was our worst home limited overs defeat ?

So questions have to be asked and right now not enough have been answered.

I include our test defeats to England and India.

So whilst we may be lacking certain types of talent compared to the past they got to get to the bottom of it before it becomes the norm. You rest on your laurels.

 

[SeamUp]

Think the 'A' team triangular is in India this year.

Preparation needs to be particular and well planned with the coaching staff.

I don't think we can afford to carry too many 26+ average joe's who have put in a good season like Stephen mentioned on the previous page.

An eye to the future and identifying talent are more crucial. Do we have eyes for talent before they score runs and take wickets like we used to at coaching and selection levels ?

 

[StephenZA]

At the end of the day though this was our worst home limited overs defeat ?

So questions have to be asked and right now not enough have been answered.

I include our test defeats to England and India.

So whilst we may be lacking certain types of talent compared to the past they got to get to the bottom of it before it becomes the norm. You rest on your laurels.

We still have an issue playing spin... I think we rested on laurels with that one, when we had Kallis, Amla, ABdV even Smith in the team and we falsely believed that we had got that all sorted... but outside those great players, we have struggled against spin and we need to put something in place to really teach the youngsters how to play spin. Also creating a ruthlessness to the team would be good... SA have never been ruthless, the last test against India this series is a good example we did not play anywhere near our best in that match; looked much more focused in the previous 2. We win series 2-1 or draw 1-1, we hardly ever whitewash the big teams.

But with all this said, in the last couple of years QDK, Rabada and Markram have shown class and come into the setup well, our fast bowling stocks still look pretty good, and we have a plethora of good spinners coming through (never had that before)... we need to also focus on the good that has come through and not just on what we are missing and gone wrong. We are still ranked #2 in both the Tests and ODI's we can't have performed that badly in the last 2 years!

 

[SeamUp]

We still have an issue playing spin... I think we rested on laurels with that one, when we had Kallis, Amla, ABdV even Smith in the team and we falsely believed that we had got that all sorted... but outside those great players, we have struggled against spin and we need to put something in place to really teach the youngsters how to play spin. Also creating a ruthlessness to the team would be good... SA have never been ruthless, the last test against India this series is a good example we did not play anywhere near our best in that match; looked much more focused in the previous 2. We win series 2-1 or draw 1-1, we hardly ever whitewash the big teams.

But with all this said, in the last couple of years QDK, Rabada and Markram have shown class and come into the setup well, our fast bowling stocks still look pretty good, and we have a plethora of good spinners coming through (never had that before)... we need to also focus on the good that has come through and not just on what we are missing and gone wrong. We are still ranked #2 in both the Tests and ODI's we can't have performed that badly in the last 2 years!

I think G.Kirsten, Gibbs, Cullinan (outside Warne) all played spin quite well. It is a modern trend though with Eng, Aus, Saf & Nzl young batsman against spin and it is concerning. No fight to graft it out anymore.

Wonder what can be done to change it. Love this stats guru of the best overseas batsmen in Asia. Whilst we can say we've been lucky with Kallis, de Villiers, G.Kirsten, Amla, Smith. Whilst we can say we've been lucky to have them , I hope the powers that be are saying we need to produce and develop more of them.

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

I agree , there are positives too. Just felt we always were competitive no matter the team we put out. In recent times I've felt we've lost that in our defeats which you could never say in the past about our defeats.

 

[Marius]

I think G.Kirsten, Gibbs, Cullinan (outside Warne) all played spin quite well. It is a modern trend though with Eng, Aus, Saf & Nzl young batsman against spin and it is concerning. No fight to graft it out anymore.

I always thought Cullinan was our best player against spin, as long as the spinner wasn't a fat, blond Australian.

I'll always remember the match where Murali was bowling hand grenades and Cullinan scored 114*, nearly half the team's runs.

1st Test, South Africa tour of Sri Lanka at Galle, Jul 20-23 2000 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

I always liked him as a player and met him once in Exclusive Books, chatted a bit, and he was very friendly, but by all accounts he is an unpleasant fellow.

 

[SeamUp]

I always thought Cullinan was our best player against spin, as long as the spinner wasn't a fat, blond Australian.

I'll always remember the match where Murali was bowling hand grenades and Cullinan scoared 114*, nearly half the team's runs.

1st Test, South Africa tour of Sri Lanka at Galle, Jul 20-23 2000 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

I always liked him as a player and met him once in Exclusive Books, chatted a bit, and he was very friendly, but by all accounts he is an unpleasant fellow.

Remember that knock. Think its key to be able to attack spin and Cullinan/Gibbs (outside the big 5) were quick on their feet but are able to defend the good one's.

He scored big runs against India too.

Definitely in ODIs I remember Cullinan & Rhodes putting on match turning partnerships against Mushy & Saqlain a couple of times.

 

[Marius]

Remember that knock. Think its key to be able to attack spin and Cullinan/Gibbs (outside the big 5) were quick on their feet but are able to defend the good one's.

He scored big runs against India too.

Definitely in ODIs I remember Cullinan & Rhodes putting on match turning partnerships against Mushy & Saqlain a couple of times.

Just saw I spelled 'scored' wrong.

How embarrassing.

 

[SeamUp]

I'm actually interested to see what the next group of fast bowlers can do too. So whilst Olivier, B.Hendricks and Siboto have got A selection and with Paterson and Dala for T20s. To actually also consider the Kolpak fast bowlers it is great to see us getting through young fast-bowlers.

Really interested in seeing Lizaad Williams, Michael Cohen, Anrich Nortje, Daryn Dupavillon etc who are all post SA Academy and taken 5-fors in franchise cricket.

Mungroo and Burger with the SA Academy this winter and will see batsman like Rickelton, de Zorzi, Breetzke, van Tonder, Pillay hopefully take the next step in their development there.

 

[Bolo]

It says something that anyone could pick an article to compete with any of those 3 Moonda articles, let alone 2 more by the same author.

In other news, we have a serious depth problem in ODIs. We have a batting problem in general in this series, but I'm not sure it's as serious as it looked. Well have players coming back from injury, and it probably only takes one specialist bat (Klaasen or qdk playing as specialists?). But the tail gets more and more dire. Rabada at 8 and Morkel at 9 is going to cost games . Andile has been a big positive in the lower order, but if he's not good enough as a specialist bowler, we have some selection issues. Going for a Morris + Andile combination leaves the bowling a bit too weak, and the tail is still a bit too long.

None of the batmen can bowl (with the exception of Duminy, who I think most would agree we want to be phasing out). None of the bowlers can bat. And the bits and pieces players are a bit too bits and pieces. It's a recipe for a seriously unbalanced side.

We've got the same problem in tests, but it's something you can work around there. In ODIs, its real trouble. I don't see a solution with the current set of players

 

[GoodAreasShane]

She still hasn't retracted it.

Even after Antoinette Muller exposed him, and received death threats for her trouble.

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/art...-death-threats-stalk-daily-maverick-reporter/

Wow, I have long thought some of Moonda's articles were patchy, but that is something else entirely. Surely any reputable journalist would check with third party sources to see if the subject of the article was credible.

Still not as bad as Brett Geeves though.

 

[morgieb]

Wow, I have long thought some of Moonda's articles were patchy, but that is something else entirely. Surely any reputable journalist would check with third party sources to see if the subject of the article was credible.

Still not as bad as Brett Geeves though.

Geeves at least has the excuse of basically writing as a fan rather than a reputable journalist. He's awful but it's 100% opinion. Moonda actually masks herself as a proper journalist.

 

[robbypark]

It says something that anyone could pick an article to compete with any of those 3 Moonda articles, let alone 2 more by the same author.

In other news, we have a serious depth problem in ODIs. We have a batting problem in general in this series, but I'm not sure it's as serious as it looked. Well have players coming back from injury, and it probably only takes one specialist bat (Klaasen or qdk playing as specialists?). But the tail gets more and more dire. Rabada at 8 and Morkel at 9 is going to cost games . Andile has been a big positive in the lower order, but if he's not good enough as a specialist bowler, we have some selection issues. Going for a Morris + Andile combination leaves the bowling a bit too weak, and the tail is still a bit too long.

None of the batmen can bowl (with the exception of Duminy, who I think most would agree we want to be phasing out). None of the bowlers can bat. And the bits and pieces players are a bit too bits and pieces. It's a recipe for a seriously unbalanced side.

We've got the same problem in tests, but it's something you can work around there. In ODIs, its real trouble. I don't see a solution with the current set of players

South Africa has had a depth problem for years. In recent history it's always been a feast or famine top heavy lineup. It's simply been covered by the fact the top 4 were arguably the most destructive top 4 in the game. But with AB slowly losing his skills(and he has been), QDK not being anywhere close to the player he used to be, and the others getting even older, the problem is simply coming to a huge head now. Within 5 years or so, South African cricket as an ODI power is going to be over.

 

[Marius]

Wow, I have long thought some of Moonda's articles were patchy, but that is something else entirely. Surely any reputable journalist would check with third party sources to see if the subject of the article was credible.

Still not as bad as Brett Geeves though.

And she blocks anyone on Twitter who calls her out on it.