South Africa team selection

[Rasimione]

Hamza probably needed to get out of the firing line. He looked overawed. Get out this series and plan ahead.

It is just unfortunate guys like Breetzke, Qeshile, Makwetu and even van Tonder weren't further along.

I have come to the realisation that because we have Verreynne and Makwetu then QdK may have to give up gloves if the other 2s keeping is good enough. Would then bat Mulder 6 and the keeper 7. De Kock at 5 but ideally 4.

Markram 4 and QDK 5. What do we have to lose? Right now we need QDKs runs more than his keeping. He's good enough to score test 100s. Why waste him at 6/7?

 

[SeamUp]

These guys will not save the system. The entire system needs to be over-hauled it is rotten at its core. The only way to keep these guys is to fix the underlying problems quickly. Part of that is also money, we will always lose players to overseas for many different reasons. But if good quality players believe they can still make a living at FC level here in SA, greater chance of staying. And money comes from sponsorship and that comes from having a good international team.

Maybe saving the system is too strong. But cricket is a very funny game. Whilst a lot of these 27-32 years of age players being played now aren't top international standard they seem to be above average domestic cricketers and even those are hard to produce. Cricket isn't a sport that produces talent in excessive numbers. Generations are important to pass down to the next generation. If young players come into our system with these guys there it is all for the better. There has to be the realisation that not all cricketers can be international quality as unlike other sports opportunities are limited by number (11) and no subs and one mistake can lead to you sitting on your bum for a day-and-a-half.

The complexities of our issues in cricket are massive. The above is a massive part of it.

Really enjoyed the lunch time chat yesterday between Atherton, Nicholas, Smith and Pollock.

Pollock said there are 3 things you invest in : development , can't remember the other and excellence. We have been neglecting the excellence and Graeme very much agreed. Graeme also spoke of the 100s of millions spent on development in cricket in SA (so it is not like there has been no investment in development etc). Spoke of the need to have scouts, coaches and knowledgeable people in our system which seems to not be there when he was coming through the system.

Atherton says his son came on a school tour to SA. Mentioned Bishops (who aren't even the strongest in Cape Town these days) and obviously played other schools and Atherton said his son told him they were far better than us. You and I have always said the talent is there but not sure if talent identification is properly in place + obviously there are restrictions in a 8/7 split.

 

[SeamUp]

Thing is I'm not too concerned with our bowling. It's the batting that worries me. Except for Makram, none of the recent batting additions have looked like they belong. As things stand, our best batsman is a wicket keeper. That's not a good sign.

The batting is a massive concern. It is also something that stats can't just be looked at.

Not saying he will be a failure but I can tell you now someone like Janneman Malan who is a monster domestically will struggle massively against accurate quick bowling and spin. Despite all this has impressive numbers. Feeds of mediocrity because his style allows it. The weakness will get amplified. Limited overs cricket I'm all good for him to get a shot.

Eddie Moore, Keegan Petersen and Zubayr Hamza. How many successful test cricketers for SA have there been that can't even make their domestic sides 50-over team with regularity ? What is holding them back ?

 

[StephenZA]

Maybe saving the system is too strong. But cricket is a very funny game. Whilst a lot of these 27-32 years of age players being played now aren't top international standard they seem to be above average domestic cricketers and even those are hard to produce. Cricket isn't a sport that produces talent in excessive numbers. Generations are important to pass down to the next generation. If young players come into our system with these guys there it is all for the better. There has to be the realisation that not all cricketers can be international quality as unlike other sports opportunities are limited by number (11) and no subs and one mistake can lead to you sitting on your bum for a day-and-a-half.

The complexities of our issues in cricket are massive. The above is a massive part of it.

Really enjoyed the lunch time chat yesterday between Atherton, Nicholas, Smith and Pollock.

Pollock said there are 3 things you invest in : development , can't remember the other and excellence. We have been neglecting the excellence and Graeme very much agreed. Graeme also spoke of the 100s of millions spent on development in cricket in SA (so it is not like there has been no investment in development etc). Spoke of the need to have scouts, coaches and knowledgeable people in our system which seems to not be there when he was coming through the system.

Atherton says his son came on a school tour to SA. Mentioned Bishops (who aren't even the strongest in Cape Town these days) and obviously played other schools and Atherton said his son told him they were far better than us. You and I have always said the talent is there but not sure if talent identification is properly in place + obviously there are restrictions in a 8/7 split.

I agree with everything you have said here in principal, and as you say it is very complex. If keeping senior players was the single major issue in the structure, then I would be all for it. I think it is a problem but I think it is a symptom, both of the state of cricket in SA and the state of SA in the world, politically and economically. I also think it is disingenuous both to the older player that gets promised things that will affect his life choices and opportunities, particularly if a year down the line he gets dropped. And if he is kept in the system/squad because of the promises then some youngster is getting short done by. The senior plays must stay because they want to stay and for that the underlying issues need to be fixed. I think there are more pressing needs and problems.

As for the SA team itself, have to accept that the domestic structure is not doing the job and will take time to fix, probably have a lost generation (or even two) at franchise/provincial level. So picking youngsters and improving them at international and A level will be the norm for at least another 10 years. And this will only improve, by fixing the maladministration/corruption and sort out the developmental problems at grass-root level. I know that 100s of millions sounds like a lot of money for development, but when implemented badly and stolen from, over say a 10 year period, it is not a lot of money. There is obviously a fundamental failure in development of players.

 

[SeamUp]

Stats time

South Africa lose two consecutive series at home for the first time since 1950

SA have lost 8 of their last 9 Tests - their worst 9-Test sequence since the First World War.

 

[wpdavid]

One silver lining might be the end of Kolpaks some time soon when UK leave the EU. I know that doesn't stop guys like Harmer serving qualifying periods though.

 

[Bahseph]

My thoughts on the team at the conclusion of the Test Series, let me know what you Gents think:

1. Elgar: Same old Elgar. Looks to get stuck in but he has always had limitations. The unfortunate part currently is his peaks seem to be becoming more and more infrequent. Has enough credit in the bank so he won't be going anywhere.
2. Malan: Limited. Seems to bat in his shell which basically means soaking up balls and not transferring pressure. I feel if Anderson was fit for the whole series he might not have lasted as long as he did.
3. Markram: Needs domestic runs. There are obviously high hopes for him and he has the talent but something is off.
4. Hamza: Looked rattled. Needs to go and work on his technique against body balls. There is a future there still if you ask me.
5. Rassie: Has his limitations when it comes to shot selection but he is a fighter. Not a number 3. Can have some value if used correctly.
6. Faf: Looks like the end is nigh. Can't seem to maintain a good tempo these days when he bats, and plays some rash shots.
7. Bavuma: 40 Tests. 1 century. If we had a good top 5 then you could have him around to play rescue acts but he is not the answer. Just can not see him batting big. Will get more opportunities though.
8. QDK: Saved us some blushes and helped us to semi-decent scores. I'd never have him in the top 4 but he is a superstar. His keeping often gets overlooked.

 

[Bahseph]

Now for the bowling:

1. KG: Was not at his best but he always takes wickets. Needs to keep his celebrations in check.
2. Nortje: What a gun. Wholehearted with everything he does and really rapid with the ball. Long may it continue.
3. Vern: Probably did not have much gas left in the tank. We will miss him, with bat and ball.
4. Keshav: Did everything that Faf needed him too. That 70 is a good sign for us in a post-Philander world. Really important for us going forward.
5. Hulk: Hmm. Look, he was decent with the ball, and looked Test class in the first two Tests, but he is not a number 7. And he is not one of the four best bowlers.
6. Hendricks: Looked rattled in that 10th wicket partnership, but he is a left armer so he will be around the squad. Think this is probably his best format.
7. Paterson: Looked like a less threatening version of Vern, and I would have him below Ngidi and Hendricks in the pecking order.

 

[Dendarii]

A thought occurred to me about the squad for the ODI series. Could they be using it to get a look at players for the T20 World Cup? That would explain some of the selections we've questioned - Nortje and Pretorius may have been given a break after the test series and will be back for the T20s against England, and the older players may have been picked as an attempt to find players in form which can be taken to the World Cup rather than as long-term prospects.

 

[StephenZA]

https://www.sport24.co.za/Cricket/EnglandinSA/faf-rebuilding-proteas-will-take-time-20200127

"But the experience we are lacking now will also take time."There is still a gap in terms of the next tier of bowlers and where they need to get to .. Rabada, Morkel, Philander, Steyn ... those guys.
"Anrich Nortje had a fantastic series and we always knew he had pace, but to be able to adjust lengths on different pitches and conditions is exactly what we need now.
"We need guys to come into Test cricket and just shine.
"I think we've had nine debutants in eight Test matches ... and it just shows where we are. We're a team that will take time."

I don't know if it is out of context but that line worries me, because if that is what they are looking for it is not going to happen. Also what he means by shine.

 

[Stefan9]

Sadly we have lost bedingham to a kolpak deal. Prince blames CSA for not picking him for the SA A squads.

 

[FBU]

What is the XI for the ODI squad?

 

[SeamUp]

What we working with ?

1. Quinton de Kock
2. Reeza Hendricks
3. Temba Bavuma
4. Janneman Malan

1. Rassie van der Dussen
2. David Miller
3. JJ Smuts
4. Kyle Verreynne

1. Andile Phehlukwayo

1. Tabraiz Shamsi
2. Bjorn Fortuin

1. Lungi Ngidi
2. Beuran Hendricks
3. Lutho Sipamla
4. Sisanda Magala (unlikely to play (fitness) but staying around the group)


Likely to go 3, 3, 1, 1, 3

If they played Fortuin and Shamsi then a seamer (Sipamla/Hendricks) will miss out. They may then decide to go Verreynne over Smuts.

 

[StephenZA]

Magala not officially dropped from squad, but not eligible for selection? I do think they are looking at him more for the T20 stuff.

Happy enough with team from a testing perspective. Would like to have seen Fortuin play. Chance for Lucky to show he is worth that 7 spot in the LO squad.

 

[SeamUp]

It's nice and all for some of these guys getting to rep SA but there isn't a lot of talent going through the roof in that squad.

But we probably putting the periscope big time on guys like Reeza, Bavuma, Miller, Phehlukwayo, Shamsi, B.Hendricks to prove they belong with games behind them.

 

[StephenZA]

But we probably putting the periscope big time on guys like Reeza, Bavuma, Miller, Phehlukwayo, Shamsi, B.Hendricks to prove they belong with games behind them.

Rassie and Smuts as well. I am looking at this very much as a testing ground for the upcoming T20 WC. Most of these guys should not be going to the next ODI WC.

 

[SeamUp]

Are guys like AB, Morris , Steyn and Tahir available for the T20WC ?

Duminy officially retired from all cricket. Morkel is Kolpak.

I know we said it at the time but Smuts/Linde could have got a gig at the WC in England.

 

[StephenZA]

Are guys like AB, Morris , Steyn and Tahir available for the T20WC ?

Duminy officially retired from all cricket. Morkel is Kolpak.

I know we said it at the time but Smuts/Linde could have got a gig at the WC in England.

AB nothing has been officially announced. I don't think he will. Morris I`m unsure about. As far as I`m aware Steyn and Tahir have made themselves available.

 

[SeamUp]

SA u19 coach speaks

https://city-press.news24.com/Sport...-its-exciting-despite-world-cup-exit-20200203

 

[SeamUp]

Lungi Ngidi on his fitness

I feel very good and I feel really good about the results, losing 4-5kg, from the couple of weeks I spent at the HPC with Adrian le Roux working on my conditioning. It was good to finally have a block of time to work on that, just running, bowling and gyming, devoting 100% of your time to training. I pride myself on the way I bounce back and the Titans game was a step in the right direction. Hopefully I can keep that momentum going.