South Africa - most over-rated team?

[vic_orthdox]

Jacques Kallis is always somebody who mustify's me, how can somebody like him is such a good player of the short ball let somebody like Brett Lee bounce him, and then get his 100 and then start hooking and pulling him?

Because you're not as scared of the short ball after you get to 100.

 

[Top_Cat]

Because you're not as scared of the short ball after you get to 100.

Saurav Ganguly and Graeme Hick obvious exceptions.

 

[wpdavid]

On a sort of related thought, how bad to SA's results have to get before Smith's position as captain is seriously questioned?

 

[Matt79]

What are the alternatives? Kallis or back to Pollock? Both of those would seem to be backwards steps to me...

 

[wpdavid]

What are the alternatives? Kallis or back to Pollock? Both of those would seem to be backwards steps to me...

I always thought Pollock was unlucky - the DL ****up in WC2003 never had much relevance to how he had & would lead the side, IMO. But I agree that there's be little point in going back to him at this stage of his career. As for Kallis, I don't understand why he wasn't in the frame 3 years ago and I don't see that he would be too old now, if they did decide to replace Smith. Other than those guys, maybe Boucher?

 

[Goughy]

IIRC, Pollock has one of the highest winning percentages of any Test captain in history.

 

[Goughy]

Couple of points i would argue with:
- Well pace is never the be-all and end-all in cricket.
- accuracy and being to able to work to a plan is something that comes with age, you gotta remember that he is still only 22, a lot of bowlers start out trying to bowl the unplayable ball and then settle down a bit with experience.
- Again experience will possibly teach him stuff about different ways of bowling after the shine has gone off the ball, reverse swing, changes of pace, cutters etc.
- I don't know Dale Steyn's extact height but an example of a guy who didn't have much height and yet came very close to averaging under 27 was darren Gough and with his lack of height it forced him to come up with different ways and different variations of bowling.
- I've not heard anything about his attitude really what have you heard?

You make it sound so easy to be a Test bowler. You do not have to be any good, you just have to play lots of games and it will all fall into place.

Im not saying experience doesnt make a big difference. What I am saying is having evaluated him (something Im not shy in saying Im very good at) and I do not think he will be a quality test bowler.

It is easy to say "but this may happen or he will learn this" but I do not think he has it in him to be a big success.

 

[TT Boy]

Thought Dale Steyn was very impressive against New Zealand, sure the pitches were bowler friendly but in comparison to Pollock, Nel and all of the New Zealand seamers he was head and shoulders above. Got good bounce (for a man of his height) and really troubled Styris and Astle, bowled with a good lick as well though I do agree with Goughy once the pitches did go a little bit flat he did lose it somewhat and disappeared to the boundaries on more than a few occasions.

His biggest test awaits in Sri Lanka, be interesting to see how he gets on.

 

[jot1]

I always thought Pollock was unlucky - the DL ****up in WC2003 never had much relevance to how he had & would lead the side, IMO. But I agree that there's be little point in going back to him at this stage of his career. As for Kallis, I don't understand why he wasn't in the frame 3 years ago and I don't see that he would be too old now, if they did decide to replace Smith. Other than those guys, maybe Boucher?

According to sources here, nobody wants the captaincy. Kallis has said publicly he doesn't want it. As have others. So we're stuck with Smith until someone else steps forward. Who that will be is anyone's guess.

 

[Goughy]

So we're stuck with Smith until someone else steps forward. Who that will be is anyone's guess.

***Stands on top of the chair and chants McKenzie,McKenzie,McKenzie,McKenzie***

 

[Craig]

***Stands on top of the chair and chants McKenzie,McKenzie,McKenzie,McKenzie***

I was going to shout "Dippenaar, Dippenaar, Dippenaar!"

But I agree with you on McKenzie (his supersitions are legendary and what they will be if he became captain I don't know )..

 

[wpdavid]

I was going to shout "Dippenaar, Dippenaar, Dippenaar!"

But I agree with you on McKenzie (his supersitions are legendary and what they will be if he became captain I don't know )..

Are either of them good enough batsmen to be guaranteed a place in the side?

 

[Goughy]

Are either of them good enough batsmen to be guaranteed a place in the side?

Noone should be guaranteed a place in the side

 

[wpdavid]

Noone should be guaranteed a place in the side

OK, but you'd like to think that your captain is far more likely than not to be good enough to be picked. Makes his life easier, if nothing else.

 

[Autobahn]

You make it sound so easy to be a Test bowler. You do not have to be any good, you just have to play lots of games and it will all fall into place.

Im not saying experience doesnt make a big difference. What I am saying is having evaluated him (something Im not shy in saying Im very good at) and I do not think he will be a quality test bowler.

It is easy to say "but this may happen or he will learn this" but I do not think he has it in him to be a big success.

No i don't make it sound easy hence sections like "Again experience will possibly teach him" and "accuracy and being to able to work to a plan is something that comes with age"

I'm not saying he is certain to improve but you can't turn around and say he won't make it based on a couple of matches, and thowing in some half-baked thoughts about his attitude.

 

[Craig]

OK, but you'd like to think that your captain is far more likely than not to be good enough to be picked. Makes his life easier, if nothing else.

Isn't that the case with Mike Bearley though?

 

[wpdavid]

Isn't that the case with Mike Bearley though?

Brearley is one of the very few exceptions I can think of. And there are those who would argue that even he didn't really justify his selection, but that's another story.

Is McKenzie or Dippenaar in Brearley's class as a captain?

 

[Craig]

Unlikely no, I doubt they have would have much captaincy experience at FC level, but don't hold me to it.

Mind you I don't think Goughy was being entirely serious, and neither was I really.

 

[TT Boy]

Unlikely no, I doubt they have would have much captaincy experience at FC level, but don't hold me to it.

Mind you I don't think Goughy was being entirely serious, and neither was I really.

McKenzie has do not know about Dippenaar, he hardly looks like or has the demeanour of a typical South African captain.

 

[Autobahn]

Isn't that the case with Mike Bearley though?

Funny thing is Brearley used to be a fairly decent batsmen scoring a triple century for the MCC in pakistan, but having taken two years out of cricket for his career (only coming back to middlesex in 1970) and having to start his test career at 34 years old meant he was never going to be particularly good at test level.

And funnily enough he was picked by Tony Grieg for the WI series in 1976 as a pure batsmen.