South Africa - captaincy blunder?

[Loony BoB]

I don't know too much about how the team get along with each other under Smith's captaincy, but did anyone ever bother to think that maybe the players are just plain and simple growing out of form? If you were to go by career stats, Cairns could be called the best all rounder in the world - but he's certainly not anymore. You could go off and say that Graeme Pollock should be in the team - he's got great career stats! But I don't think it would work to put him in. Although you never know.

I do think it was a bit, er, odd to take Pollock out of the role, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if SA find form in the next half year and everyone will be saying the exact opposite. Smith does have the advantage of youth on his side and in time he could prove to be one of the best captains in the world. We'll see... and I do hope whoever leads SA, that they do well, because outside NZ they're my favourite team.

Silent sidenote, NZ's rubbish side includes a player 6th in the all time batting averages in Marshall (qual: 20 innings), a player known to be the best ODI captain in the world who has scored more runs in ODI's than any other NZ'er in history not to mention being ranked 6th in PWC's top ten ODI batsmen (Fleming), a player ranked 5th in the bowling rankings in Oram... to say we are a side without stars is officially stupid.

 

[marc71178]

I was pointing more to the fact that he called NZ a rubbish side when they're clearly not that at the moment.

I thought it was just the terrible bowling attack he said about?

 

[meggs]

ump

i wish that everyone who keeps on saying harsh things about Graeme Smith, Eric Simmons and South Africa would just pack their bags and get outta here.
South Africa are a great team who are going through a bit of a scratchy patch...dont all of you all of a sudden be die hard supporters when we are on top again! I support south africa through the good times and the bad and understand their reasoning behind everything they do whether i think its right or wrong! a proudly south african supporter till the end

 

[marc71178]

9 defeats in ODI in a row is more than just a scratchy patch.

Of course the problem now is if England win down there this winter, everyone on here will be saying how it means nothing as SA are a poor side.

 

[Langeveldt]

Meggs, I appreciate your level headedness in all this, but doesn't it annoy you when at the start of every series, SA have to come out all pumped up and spout some bullsh** about *daring to dream* or *never satisfied* or something?
It just makes me mad when they say all this and play like an absolute load of douches.. Smith is fast becoming an "all mouth no trousers" operator, and it has been like this since England 2003
Smith's honeymoon period is over, the guys have got to close their mouths and start playing.. Maybe with less pressure on their backs when they stop coming up with all their fancy statements...

 

[Langeveldt]

Silent sidenote, NZ's rubbish side includes a player 6th in the all time batting averages in Marshall (qual: 20 innings), a player known to be the best ODI captain in the world who has scored more runs in ODI's than any other NZ'er in history not to mention being ranked 6th in PWC's top ten ODI batsmen (Fleming), a player ranked 5th in the bowling rankings in Oram... to say we are a side without stars is officially stupid.

If Oram and Marshall are stars, they must be the most mediocre stars of all time! Hardly out of the Kallis, Tendulkar mold are they?

 

[Loony BoB]

That's only because nobody makes a big deal about them. New Zealanders are always discounted. =/ But if you check PWC, which is known to have a quality rating system, Oram is right up there with the best of them at the moment. Marshall isn't up top because he hasn't played enough games, although if you use the comparison feature against the likes of other greats of the past, you'll find he's doing extremely well at the moment.

There's also the fact that leading ODI players aren't generally given much attention until they perform at test level, and Marshall hasn't been given much of an opportunity whilst Oram hasn't really taken off as well as he has in ODI's.

 

[thehellraiser]

the policy within the nz team is what it should be....they do not make a fuss about their players and just get n with it....and by doing this they win matches. they follow the policy that cricket is a team game and not an individual one ....thats why they have won more matches that teams that just keep on bragging about how they have the best batsman playing for them or the best bowler and so on.

 

[Sudeep]

It's surprising no one has mentioned Jonty Rhodes's retirement as a possible reason for South Africa's apparent decline.

Yes, Rhodes wasn't the most prolific batsman, but there are players like him, who have a certain impact on the team, and despite a lesser performance in terms of quantity, manage to induce the spirit of wanting to win.

 

[Loony BoB]

Good point, Rhodes was a highly influential player in their team in the sense of his fielding - everyone knows that a bit of brilliant fielding can raise the spirits of your team, and he fielded brilliantly every day.

 

[DocHead]

Ja, Rhodes was like the Duracell Bunny. I think losing him and Kirsten was a huge gutcheck for SA, those guys were from the 'ard as nails club SA had going in the '90s. People like Symcox, Donald, Richardson, Brian Mac, etc. who could face down a galloping bull without a blink if they needed to.

Pollock & Kallis are from that club as well, so there's still some steel in there. It's early days though, I think Rudolf & Smith have that look about them.

Like I said before, victory over India, in India is on it's way.

 

[Langeveldt]

the policy within the nz team is what it should be....they do not make a fuss about their players and just get n with it....and by doing this they win matches. they follow the policy that cricket is a team game and not an individual one ....thats why they have won more matches that teams that just keep on bragging about how they have the best batsman playing for them or the best bowler and so on.

Thats an approach the Proteas would do well to have a look at.. Not beating any drums at all... Just playing quality cricket..

Jonty? Legend...

 

[Spetsnatz]

Perhaps as important as the captaincy is the issue of their attack.
Traditionally RSA have always prided themselves on possessing a strong bowling lineup.

Trevor Chesterfield reckons there's a real paucity of quality fast bowlers in the country and Phil Simmons (who recently coached Zimbabwe against RSA A) felt that South Africa's reserve pace bowlers wre pretty 'unimpressive".
Dean Jones was alsp recently quoted as saying that teams no longer fear the South African attack.

Thoughts on this ?

 

[Tim]

South Africa I feel are starting to play more as individuals rather than as a team (which they were incredibly good at doing 3 or 4 years ago)

Cronje was particulary good at rallying the troops & pulling all the talent together..but since then it has declined slowly & now with a young captain at the helm, it's declining alot faster.

Having said that..all it needs is for South Africa to put 2 or 3 wins together and they could well be back on track.
I feel the up coming England series could be make or break for a few of the South African players.

 

[Jnr.]

It's surprising no one has mentioned Jonty Rhodes's retirement as a possible reason for South Africa's apparent decline.

He was the heartbeat of the SA side. Jonty's spirit was SA's spirit and now that he's gone, they have really suffered.

 

[Slow Love™]

The main problem facing South Africa is, if they decided to remove Smith from the captaincy, who would they replace him with? There don't seem to be any options, seeing as Kallis obviously isn't highly regarded (as captaincy material), and going for somebody like Rudolph is even more of a risk than Smith was. I think that removing Pollock was definitely the thing to do (I'm surprised by how some people here rate him) - I'm not sure that Smith has been much better though, even if the problems South Africa are experiencing are likely more general than the issue of who's the captain right now.

Maybe somebody should give Darryl Cullinan a phone call. After all, the board "made up" with Klusener....

 

[Langeveldt]

I'd have no problems with McKenzie being given the captaincy.. But at the moment he is slapping hundreds with SA "A"..

What a bloody waste

 

[Richard]

But if you check PWC, which is known to have a quality rating system, Oram is right up there with the best of them at the moment.

No, it's not, it's a very poor system and it's a reflection of the current quality of ODI bowling that Oram is right up there at the moment, plus the poor system.

 

[Richard]

And I continue to laugh at Richard's rubbish...yep, NZ in particular are playing really poor ODI cricket at the moment.

No, it was South Africa who played the poor cricket - most of the bowlers and some of the batsmen underperformed.
And England and West Indies played poor ODI cricket - wow, what a surprise that is.

 

[Craig]

I'd have no problems with McKenzie being given the captaincy.. But at the moment he is slapping hundreds with SA "A"..

What a bloody waste

For him to get the captaincy, he will need to hold a regular spot, and it seems McKenzie is hardly a certainty in every South African XI.