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Solutions For Australia's decline

Redbacks

International Captain
The best you can do is give the right training to the right players. I would say our development pathway in Australia is facilitating for the best cricketers to come to the system. Adelaide is obviously dire in this regard (can think of many issues with junior development), however our tough competition for places at domestic level is a good thing.

The weather is on our side, nearly every 4 day match in Aus will have the full amount of play. Batters can't hide behind lost play and bowlers either.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Well grapedo might well have been as well, he was certainly an obvious SA fan and an obvious idiot.
 

Matt79

Hall of Fame Member
There is no solution to the quality of a test team, in terms of measures that can be implemented by a teams selectors, other than making sound selections and sticking with them. What have we learnt from the tour of India and the loss in Perth that we didn't already know? Nothing, IMO, apart from the fact that Hayden might be nearing the end of his already impressive longevity, as well as the positives that Watson might be a viable test allrounder after all, and that Johnson is test class.

We were simply beaten by teams that performed better in those matches - changing the team if the replacements can not be reasonably anticipated to be better is a recipe for prolonged direness.

What is needed is for the players who are in the team on merit to perform at the level they have proven they are capable of.

Australia remains, and will likely always remain, a very good cricket team. However, its sheer hubris to think that somehow Cricket Australia or the selectors can somehow prevent other very good cricket teams like India or SA emerging, or that they can manage things so that regardless of the loss of all-time great players the team remains #1 rather than simply very good. The hard reality is that exceptional teams are exceptional due to exceptional individuals in those teams - something selectors have no role in once those players are established in the team, aside from not getting in their way. Australia was number 1 because of the confluence of the careers of Steve Waugh, Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayde, Adam Gilchrist, Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne, backed up by several other very good players. With those players, only truly incompetent selection could produce a non-#1 team.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Hate to tell this. don't harass.
Harass? Nothing of the sort. Your posting is grapedo-esque, though apparently you're not grapedo.

I couldn't really care less whether you're not grapedo though, your posting is deplorable.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
However, its sheer hubris to think that somehow Cricket Australia or the selectors can somehow prevent other very good cricket teams like India or SA emerging, or that they can manage things so that regardless of the loss of all-time great players the team remains #1 rather than simply very good. The hard reality is that exceptional teams are exceptional due to exceptional individuals in those teams - something selectors have no role in once those players are established in the team, aside from not getting in their way. Australia was number 1 because of the confluence of the careers of Steve Waugh, Ricky Ponting, Matthew Hayde, Adam Gilchrist, Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne, backed up by several other very good players. With those players, only truly incompetent selection could produce a non-#1 team.
Ind33d - moreoreless exactly what I said but probably in a way that made it even more obvious.

It's so silly the way people think that planning, organisation and management can guarantee the calibre of a team. The biggest factor in calibre of a team is luck of the draw - how many players of the requistite ability happen to have been born at the right time. All planning, organisation and management can do is maximise this potential.
 

susudear

Banned
If my posting is dire....

Harass? Nothing of the sort. Your posting is grapedo-esque, though apparently you're not grapedo.

I couldn't really care less whether you're not grapedo though, your posting is deplorable.
...Let moderator baan me. ur behaviour is easily deplorable since u seen to be bent on stalking me. already got a warning you, still dunno you are getting aaway with this. nobody esle is doing this.
 

Redbacks

International Captain
It's about evolving. Ponting as a captain and the team in finding a 'dominant' game strategy to maximise results.

Fail to plan, plan to fail.
 
Maybe India or South Africa could lend a few FC cricketers to Australia [/John Buchanan]
Oh really? Do they have enough cricketers to replace even 3-4 of their own team mates? Aussies are still the best. They can still make 2 world class cricket teams because of their better cricket structure.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
...Let moderator baan me. ur behaviour is easily deplorable since u seen to be bent on stalking me. already got a warning you, still dunno you are getting aaway with this. nobody esle is doing this.
Stop being silly. This is an online forum - it is not possible to "stalk".
 

TheEpic

School Boy/Girl Captain
First and foremost they need to realise they are no longer the overriding force in world cricket. Indeed, the dismissals of Symonds and Clarke in the last Test are symptomatic of this - players still very much in the mindset that they must constantly dominate the opposition by playing aggressive strokes regardless of the context of the game. Such tactics may pay off spectacularly, but they no longer have the likes of Warne and McGrath to pick up the pieces if they fail miserably.

Secondly, they need captaincy which recognises the limitations of the current side. Ponting surely needs to either have some faith in the bowlers currently selected for Australia and give them some confidence by keeping attacking fields regardless of a couple of bad overs, or at least backing them in public. I found it pretty shocking that he had effectively a swipe at the abilities of the likes of Krejza and Siddle after the last Test, when these are inexperienced blokes who have barely even played FC cricket, let alone a high pressure Test match such as the one that's just ended. Point the finger at the deluded selectors who cannot seriously expect Warne like heroics from a guy that averages 45 in FC cricket and they must know to bowl a mixed bag of excellent and appalling stuff. Point the finger at the likes of himself, Hayden and Lee, who are currently failing to lead the team through this period of uncertainty. But to have a pop at 2 bowlers who are as green as the caps that they wear is not going to help matters.

And indeed, they need to show some consistency in selection, especially regarding the spin bowlers position. I was always under the impression that Krejza had been selected because he is seen to be an attacking off spin bowler who gets considerably more turn than others who engage in his craft. He is then ruthlessly dropped for returning some bad figures against some of the greatest batsmen in world cricket on a pitch which offered him very little. He still troubled nearly every batsman on show, and yes, he bowled some dross, but he did this when taking those hatfuls of wickets against India too. Either accept this is part and parcel of selecting such a bowler, or don't pick him in the first place. If they want someone to tie up an end, then surely Hauritz should have been selected.

These trigger happy selectors need to understand that the current Australian side is a work in progress, and that younger and inexperienced players are going to have to be persisted with until it is clear whether they are up to the rigours of Test cricket or not. They need only look at their current opponents to see the effects of this - cricketers such as De Villiers and Steyn who have come through the initial stages of looking ill-equipped for Test cricket and are playing a huge part in the emergence of South Africa as a world class side.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
And indeed, they need to show some consistency in selection, especially regarding the spin bowlers position. I was always under the impression that Krejza had been selected because he is seen to be an attacking off spin bowler who gets considerably more turn than others who engage in his craft. He is then ruthlessly dropped for returning some bad figures against some of the greatest batsmen in world cricket on a pitch which offered him very little. He still troubled nearly every batsman on show, and yes, he bowled some dross, but he did this when taking those hatfuls of wickets against India too. Either accept this is part and parcel of selecting such a bowler, or don't pick him in the first place. If they want someone to tie up an end, then surely Hauritz should have been selected.
I don't know the actual rationale behind Krejza's selection, so it may have been completely different to the idea which would've been the right one. However, the right idea with Krejza would've been to take him to India, play him, and then not pick him in Australia. At all. His First-Class record shows quite clearly that in Australia he has close to zero chance of any significant success. It's a strategy advocated by one Robert Cribb, who assures us that Krejza can occasionally bowl very well on turning pitches but can also bowl very poorly quite often.

The trouble is that once someone's gotten 12 wickets in a match (even if they have conceded nearly 360 in doing it) no-one is going to understand if he's not picked again. To leave a fingerspinner - any fingerspinner - out at The 'Gabba this season was quite the right decision, because the surface suited seam, seam and more seam and was never going to offer appreciable turn so therefore no matter how attacking a spinner someone is perceived, if they're a fingerspinner they won't get good batsmen out. If picked, Krejza might've expected to have bowled 10-15 overs all game, and this could easily have cost Australia as they'd have been deprived of that vital seam option and would've a) had to bowl lesser seamers like Symonds and b) had to bowl the seamers they did have more and thus tire them out quicker and make them less effective.

If the strategem behind picking Krejza was to do a short-term job in India, it was actually very good selection. However, if it was to have a long-term option who'd play regularly in Australia and elsewhere then it was very poor, because Krejza's First-Class record simply shows quite obviously that that isn't going to happen.

Continuity is ideal in the cases of most players, but fingerspinners are the exception to the rule. If they're to have decent careers, then picking them in every Test is simply not an option. Ashley Giles' case shows all too well what happens when you do that. It might seem un-ideal for the confidence of a player to be constantly in and out of the team but I assure you, it's far more of a dent to a player's confidence to be being constantly belted for stuff like 1-200. Ashley Giles was a very strong player mentally so he could've coped with either scenario, and did with the latter, and thus generally bowled very effectively whenever the pitch allowed him to. And if he'd been afforded the former then he'd now generally be regarded as a fairly respectable bowler rather than the joke so many so wrongly regard him as.

Nathan Hauritz isn't good enough to be an attacking weapon on almost any surface so if Australia did want a defensive option in Australia then he'd be a better pick than Krejza. Personally I'd say that no bowler should ever be picked for Test cricket as a defensive option, any Test bowler has to be able to take wickets in his own right. However, if you wanted a defensive spinner in Australia, the right thing would've been to have picked Hauritz over Krejza the minute you left India. That'd have been good selection, in terms of picking the type of player who can offer something rather than nothing (in that no defence + no attack < defence + no attack, even though neither is a scenario you want for a Test bowler under any circumstance). But can you imagine the outrage if Hauritz should've been picked in preference to Krejza when Krejza's most recent game was his debut?
These trigger happy selectors need to understand that the current Australian side is a work in progress, and that younger and inexperienced players are going to have to be persisted with until it is clear whether they are up to the rigours of Test cricket or not. They need only look at their current opponents to see the effects of this - cricketers such as De Villiers and Steyn who have come through the initial stages of looking ill-equipped for Test cricket and are playing a huge part in the emergence of South Africa as a world class side.
I don't think de Villiers ever looked ill-equipped for Test cricket TBH - I myself thought he looked the part when I first saw him in under-19 cricket in 2003. And certainly in his debut Test series I always thought he retained promise and sure enough in just his 5th Test he made twin scores of over 90.

Steyn's a different matter and was hopelessly below-par in his first 3 Tests but it was a massive error to select him then (there were a good few superior bowlers around at the time) and that was one of a good few factors that led to SA losing that series.
 
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pup11

International Coach
The best thing to do would be to sack Andrew Hilditch and co and ask someone else to take up the job, and FFS who allowed Merv Hughes to become a selector, bring back AB....
 

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