Sobers rates Subash Gupte over Shane Warne

[Jono]

This is one of those 6 days of the year when Benchy is a good poster.

 

[vic_orthdox]

*cues Richmond joke*

 

[benchmark00]

This is one of those 6 days of the year when Benchy is a good poster.

If I have to: The other five are days when Richmond win a game?

****.

 

[Jono]

You always have a choice you s.o.b

 

[weldone]

umm the quote basically says - how could Bradman's team have done well when you look at how the Australian team played Harmison in 2005 - Strike no one else as odd?

I'm sure Sobers didn't mean it. I'm sure Ikki isn't quoting the whole conversation.

I think what Sobers meant is this (probably in response to a question whether this Aussie team is the best of all-time, and better than Bradman's team): he has not seen Bradman's team play, so he can't comment on whether Ponting's team is better than that. But one doesn't have to go that far (till Bradman's time). Ponting's team would lose most of their games against Lloyd's team because of the quoted reasons. I'm sure that's what he meant.

I'm sure Ikki is hiding a few sentences etc. (intentionally or unintentionally), probably I can show if he shares the link.

 

[fredfertang]

What Sobers says these days needs to be treated with a degree of caution

A well known cricket writer I know (not very well) who has met him several times told me this

Sobers has become a rather bitter man in recent years, and that will colour what he now says.

 

[G.I.Joe]

What Sobers says these days needs to be treated with a degree of caution

A well known cricket writer I know (not very well) who has met him several times told me this

IIRC, Sobers has held his Gupte>Warne for quite a long time now.

 

[fredfertang]

He's maintained his admiration for Gupte since he first went into print - he said in a 1988 book that he was the best he had seen and specifically better than Benaud or Qadir - the comment I quoted was more in the context of the other points this thread has raised

 

[weldone]

What Sobers says these days needs to be treated with a degree of caution

A well known cricket writer I know (not very well) who has met him several times told me this

Have you seen any symptoms in your well known cricket writer turning bitter these days, btw?

 

[weldone]

the comment I quoted was more in the context of the other points this thread has raised

Which are fair and arguable points, whether you agree with them or not.

 

[fredfertang]

Have you seen any symptoms in your well known cricket writer turning bitter these days, btw?

I don't know him well enough to comment, but certainly Sobers 2002 autobiography does not read as if written by a happy and contented man, which is a shame given the extent of his achievements

 

[weldone]

I don't know him well enough to comment, but certainly Sobers 2002 autobiography does not read as if written by a happy and contented man, which is a shame given the extent of his achievements

There might be some reasons for a great cricketer of yester-years turning a little unhappy in recent years. The match-fixing scandals, the flat pitches, the ever-decreasing size of grounds, the increased advent of sledging, ICC turning into I$C$C and licking the *** of BCCI, any Tom Dick and Afridi turning into heroes in the recent years maybe some reasons resulting in a champion cricketer of yester-years being not in a perfectly happy, contented, serene and blissful mood. The only very positive thing in the last few years in cricketing world that I can think (of the top of my head) is some real champion cricketers playing their hearts out...but again even that's not anything unique, every generation had its champion cricketers.

And also, a person's being perfectly happy, according to me, has zero correlation to him making sense. In fact, most of the sensible things I've heard from sensible persons' mouths often came when they were stirred/angry/emotionally involved for some reason. Generally people refrain from making arguable statements when they're in a serene mood.

 

[Ikki]

The quote says all it needs to say. Australia at their peak in the last decade wouldn't have won ONE test against Lloyd's Windies? Get real. Lesser teams than that Aussie team beat them - one being the Australian team in the 80s, or even NZ. It's such an exaggeration that you'd be justified to call Sobers a troll.

 

[fredfertang]

Sobers loved gambling and the good things in life and I understand he wasn't a great believer in saving up for his retirement - I have little doubt that it hacks him off to see the sort of money players with nothing like his ability are earning today yet he has to carry on working the after dinner speaking circuit at 74 to earn a relatively modest living - or that he has to say things that are controversial to get people to pay for the privilege of talking to him - I'm not saying he's right or wrong or that his views aren't genuinely held simply that like many of us he isn't always entirely objective

 

[weldone]

Australia at their peak in the last decade wouldn't have won ONE test against Lloyd's Windies? Get real.

I hope you understand he didn't mean ONE literally. He wasn't surely in a mood of making a politically correct statement...I get the gist of what he was trying to say. Something in the lines of Lloyd's WI would dominate Waugh's Australia most of the times. And I don't see anything criminal in such a comment.

 

[weldone]

Sobers loved gambling and the good things in life and I understand he wasn't a great believer in saving up for his retirement - I have little doubt that it hacks him off to see the sort of money players with nothing like his ability are earning him today yet he has to carry on working the after dinner speaking circuit at 74 to earn a relatively modest living - or that he has to say things that are controversial to get people to pay for the privelege of talking to him - I'm not saying he's right or wrong or that his views aren't genuinely held simply that like many of us he isn't always entirely objective

That was not the most modest and objective way of putting it, either

 

[Ikki]

He said:

"I don't think they would have even won a single Test against Clive Lloyd's team, to tell you the truth. "

At best he is being a troll and at worst an idiot. If he wants to be treated so highly he should avoid making statements like that. His justification is just as bad as the justification for Gupte being better than Warne.

 

[weldone]

He doesn't need to say anything to be treated so highly, fyi.

Of course, anyone saying anything against Australian cricketers of the last 20 years has to be a troll and an idiot. First Gavaskar, and now Sobers.

All he was trying to say was that Steve Waugh's Australia is nowhere close to Lloyd's West Indies in terms of capabilities. That's his view, live with it. You don't have to agree in order to not consider him an idiot.

By the way, Sobers considers Lillee to be the best fast bowler he has seen. I guess we should call him an idiot for saying that, too?

 

[Ikki]

I was referring to fred's point re him sounding bitter about not being appreciated. He is held in high esteem for what he did on the field but with comments like that it's no surprise people will want to hear less from him.

TBF he can have whatever opinion he wants even if it is based on not a whole lot of sound logic. But let's give his opinion the weight it deserves based on the merit of his reason and not merely because he used to be a great cricketer. Statements like the one I highlighted are just poor.

FTR if he holds his opinion re Lillee merely because he tends to favour the players in his own era it means much much less to me personally. Everyone knows I love Warne but I disregard his opinions on players he clearly had problems with.

 

[weldone]

Everyone knows I love Warne but I disregard his opinions on players he clearly had problems with.

What problems did he have with Warne? I haven't heard of those sms being intended to be sent to Sobers before they were actually sent to Warne. Have you?

On a serious note, he doesn't have a problem with Warne. Even in that article, he says that all of the success of Waugh's team was because of McGrath and Warne.