Sobers rates Subash Gupte over Shane Warne

[vcs]

Would personally rate some of his big hauls against the Windies higher than his hauls against England...

Individually, yeah, if it came against better players of spin on less friendly wickets... but I was making the point that I have never seen a player completely own a team like Warne owned England in his career.

 

[Ikki]

Me too, but Sobers won't. And calling him an idiot for that is idiotic.

No, I disagree. The distance between the two is large enough for the comparison itself to be inane.

As I said to you before, I didn't call Sobers an idiot per se. I said, either he doesn't understand how good the Waugh team was, or does and chooses to cause controversy anyway. I don't know which one of those it is. I don't remember calling him an idiot for the Gupte/Warne comparison - which I don't think is a smart comment at all, but not as bad as saying Waugh's XI wouldn't have won a single test.

Apologies to Migara also. LOL, in this forum his name is almost synonymous with Sri Lankan cricket .

*Malinga

That doesn't matter though. I probably would say they aren't in the same plane too, but it's ridiculous to pretend that Malinga-Hadlee have the same degree of comparability/uncomparability. Sobers feels Gupte and Warne are comparable. If Sobers felt Malinga and Hadlee are comparable, he would have mentioned it. There isn't the matter of a 11 point difference in average between Gupte and Warne to pretend that the analogy with Malinga and Hadlee is credible.

It's irrelevant that he didn't find Malinga and Hadlee comparable. Just because he found Gupte and Warne to be comparable doesn't make it anymore valid. It's his opinion, but let's stop paying it extra respect because it comes from Sobers. It's a very poorly calculated opinion - just as it would be had he found Malinga and Hadlee comparable. FTR, there is a 4 point difference in their averages and 18 points in SR; whereas Malinga has 11 points difference in avg and practically none in their sr.

Bagapath's reasoning is - as I understand it - that just because two bowlers are of the same type (spin/pace) and one does one thing the other doesn't (googly/yorkers) it doesn't make the bowler who is clearly a level below the other's superior because of that one fact.

 

[honestbharani]

ha ha... leaving for shoot again tomorrow HB... that post was meant to be sarcastic you see... it is like saying malinga's yorkers make him better than hadlee. all in response to sobers' claim that gupte's googly make him better than warne

Yeah I got that.. juz wondering, coz it is probably not right but it is understandable a guy like Sobers would think that way.. as I have said in my earlier post.

 

[Teja.]

I don't see why so much diplomacy needs to be displayed while talking about Bradman and Sobers making idiotic statements which is not shown when someone like KP does so.

I'll say it and get it off me.

IMO,

Sobers was being an Idiot when he made the Australia-WI comparison(though not when he was making the Warne-Gupte one).

Bradman was being an idiot when he stated that O'Reilly was a better bowler than Barnes.

Ok yaay! Thanks.

 

[Himannv]

Personally always believed Warne was better. Sobers is well within his right to believe otherwise though. He saw them both in action and is definitely in a position to judge. His opinion however doesn't mean its universal. Its just his opinion and he's more than entitled to give it.

 

[weldone]

Personally always believed Warne was better. Sobers is well within his right to believe otherwise though. He saw them both in action and is definitely in a position to judge. His opinion however doesn't mean its universal. Its just his opinion and he's more than entitled to give it.

That's the whole point, you said it.

 

[G.I.Joe]

It's irrelevant that he didn't find Malinga and Hadlee comparable. Just because he found Gupte and Warne to be comparable doesn't make it anymore valid. It's his opinion, but let's stop paying it extra respect because it comes from Sobers. It's a very poorly calculated opinion - just as it would be had he found Malinga and Hadlee comparable. FTR, there is a 4 point difference in their averages and 18 points in SR; whereas Malinga has 11 points difference in avg and practically none in their sr.

Bagapath's reasoning is - as I understand it - that just because two bowlers are of the same type (spin/pace) and one does one thing the other doesn't (googly/yorkers) it doesn't make the bowler who is clearly a level below the other's superior because of that one fact.

I think Bagapath's reasoning is a pile of crap for reasons already stated. Gupte's record should be looked at in the light of SJS's post IMO, ftr. A 11 point difference in averages puts players in entirely different ballparks.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I don't see why so much diplomacy needs to be displayed while talking about Bradman and Sobers making idiotic statements which is not shown when someone like KP does so.

I'll say it and get it off me.

IMO,

Sobers was being an Idiot when he made the Australia-WI comparison(though not when he was making the Warne-Gupte one).

Bradman was being an idiot when he stated that O'Reilly was a better bowler than Barnes.

Ok yaay! Thanks.

Teja, you're a good poster otherwise, but claiming that Border > Viv/Chappell/Lara was idiocy of the highest order.

 

[weldone]

Teja, you're a good poster otherwise, but claiming that Border > Viv/Chappell/Lara was idiocy of the highest order.

Ha ha, yeah and if claiming Gupte>Warne and O'Reilly>Barnes are idiocy, then I guess claiming Waqar>Hadlee/Marshall/Barnes is idiocy, too

 

[G.I.Joe]

EVERYONE'S AN IDIOT!!!!
z

 

[honestbharani]

Ashwin/Bollinger > All.. Discuss.

 

[Teja.]

@GI

Ya' sonufabetch.

 

[weldone]

Ashwin/Bollinger > All, in Discus throw.

fixed

 

[Teja.]

Ha ha, yeah and if claiming Gupte>Warne and O'Reilly>Barnes are idiocy, then I guess claiming Waqar>Hadlee/Marshall/Barnes is idiocy, too

The difference between Waqar and the other ATG pacers statistically is negligible(and is significantly in favour of Waqar if a a certain statistic is considered), You could pick the 15 top pacers arrange them in any order and could get a perfectly justifiable Top 15.

As far the Barnes question, Waqar wasn't a good enough pacer to kiss Barnes' shoes.(IMO obv.)

 

[Sanz]

rating warne not as high as other cricket enthusiasts is one thing; rating him below gupte is something else.

Why ?

i didn't call him an idiot or a troll. but said he suffers from the same old problem of old men believing things were better in their times; bradman suffered from it too. harvey has the problem these days. bedi shows signs of it. they are not idiots. but still they are not always objective.

Really Bradman/Sobers statements are same as Bedi/Harvey statements ? And you are blaming them for not being objective ?

And Warnie's record against India is always going to be brought up every time there is a discussion about stats (along with certain other things, that will blow this place up, if I even mentioned it).

 

[Sanz]

I think Bagapath's reasoning is a pile of crap for reasons already stated. Gupte's record should be looked at in the light of SJS's post IMO, ftr. A 11 point difference in averages puts players in entirely different ballparks.

Also not to forget is the First Class record of Gupte, which is better than Warne's.

 

[honestbharani]

Warney was not the perfect legspinner. This, from one of his biggest fans over here.. He was never really SO awesome that it was impossible to think of a better spinner than him... So do I think Gupte > Warne? No. Do I agree that it may have been a possibility? Yes.

 

[Migara]

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.

 

[Ikki]

I think Bagapath's reasoning is a pile of crap for reasons already stated. Gupte's record should be looked at in the light of SJS's post IMO, ftr. A 11 point difference in averages puts players in entirely different ballparks.

All players have caveats, that includes Gupte and Warne - whose record could also be viewed even more positively but for them. However, 4 points on average and about 18 points on SR does put Gupte and Warne in different ballparks. Also, take a look at his record, the only two teams he averages less than 30 were the two clear weakest of his time. It's not close...that's the point.

 

[G.I.Joe]

All players have caveats and 4 points on average and about 18 points on SR does put Gupte and Warne in different ballparks. Also, take a look at his record, the only two teams he averages less than 30 were the two clear weakest of his time. It's not close...that's the point.

..

I think Bagapath's reasoning is a pile of crap for reasons already stated. Gupte's record should be looked at in the light of SJS's post IMO, ftr. A 11 point difference in averages puts players in entirely different ballparks.