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So the ICC evidence is finally in - and apparently even Glen McGrath chucks...

Cevno

Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
GingerFurball said:
I'm not arguing against DRS-lite - I'm saying that the "let's just forget ball tracking for now" argument is stupid. I'm yet to hear a convincing argument against using ball-tracking that isn't a variant of "I don't like it."
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Well don't want to start a DRS argument again, but that is patently untrue.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
BoyBrumby said:
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BoyBrumby said:
It really should, yes. The point is that he's not slightly over fifteen degrees, he's so far past it he can barely see it.
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BB, come on mate - you're better than that. You can't judge that from TV because he's not stationary - his body is moving, as is his whole arm. Somebody just made the start and end angles out of thin air.

He may chuck the teesra (or the doosra) but that tells you nothing.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
silentstriker said:
BB, come on mate - you're better than that. You can't judge that from TV because he's not stationary - his body is moving, as is his whole arm. Somebody just made the start and end angles out of thin air.

He may chuck the teesra (or the doosra) but that tells you nothing.
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I just don't agree.

In the dead tree version of today's Sun there were video frame by frame pics of his doosra and teesra delivery actions which sadly isn't on their website. The flex is huge and clearly exceeds fifteen degrees. It's so far over it's apparent even to the naked eye.

Hopefully, & judging by the word round the campfire he will be reported after this test, he'll be having another trip to UWA very soon.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
yeah coz bowling with a bent arm is illegal.. oh wait..


EDIT: Was a response to sledger's post, not BB's. I guess that got people confused. Apologies.
 
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Scaly piscine

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
silentstriker said:
Sure, and of course if a delivery is found to be say ~14.4 degrees, there is no guarantee that sometimes it won't be ~15.2, but overall given the constraints and the way they test, any significant variations are IMHO unlikely. I don't think 'he could just bowl differently in a match situation' is likely to account for a significant difference since they do test to make sure the delivery behaves the same. Obviously, 15.2 is breaking the law while 14.4 is not, but until/unless we can determine the bend in real time via cameras, I think it's a fair enough compromise. Meaning, I can't think of a better solution - I don't think allowing McGrath to chuck because his action can fool your eyes more was a fairer outcome.
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I think it's pretty much impossible to say whether there'll be a significant difference or not in terms of 2 degrees, 5 degrees or whatever. There are so many variables.

I don't know why they don't just use in-game footage. They did a study of hundreds of bowlers in the first place in 2004 so the capability must be there and technology has moved on since then. Players that have retired decades ago were in the study. Obviously there'll be a margin of error but you can make an allowance for that. If someone is borderline at least you have a reference if you have to involve a lab.
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Howe_zat said:
Please, could you at least vaguely attempt to read the posts you're arguing with?

Pretty please?
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I was arguing a post that had a still picture? I think BB posted while I was posting the reply to sledger, so it looked like I was responding to his. Sorry about that.

GingerFurball said:
You've admitted you haven't seen the delivery in question.
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Yes. I never said his bowling action is legal or illegal. But if someone wants to show that he chucks and posts a still picture when all we see is a bent arm (and we have no idea how much he straightens it), I just thought he was one of those who thinks bowling with a bent arm is illegal. (And that is a belief that is shared by a surprisingly large group of people)

uvelocity said:
boggles the mind of this casual reader
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likewise. :)
 
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honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
BoyBrumby said:
I just don't agree.

In the dead tree version of today's Sun there were video frame by frame pics of his doosra and teesra delivery actions which sadly isn't on their website. The flex is huge and clearly exceeds fifteen degrees. It's so far over it's apparent even to the naked eye.

Hopefully, & judging by the word round the campfire he will be reported after this test, he'll be having another trip to UWA very soon.
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See, that view is fair enough but at least wait till its proven. You know how the law works today. You can't report it during a game or even a series and the measurements have to be done afterwards.
 
silentstriker

silentstriker

The Wheel is Forever
Scaly piscine said:
I think it's pretty much impossible to say whether there'll be a significant difference or not in terms of 2 degrees, 5 degrees or whatever. There are so many variables.

I don't know why they don't just use in-game footage. They did a study of hundreds of bowlers in the first place in 2004 so the capability must be there and technology has moved on since then. Players that have retired decades ago were in the study. Obviously there'll be a margin of error but you can make an allowance for that. If someone is borderline at least you have a reference if you have to involve a lab.
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They didn't use video footage in 2004 did they? Can you link to that because I would be surprised.
 
P

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
silentstriker said:
FTR, if there is a new delivery that hasn't been tested (e.g teesra) or if people feel there's a change in the action, I've no problem with reporting it and I know many were only saying to test the teesra, which IMO is fair enough.

From my naked eyes, I don't see the action for the teesra as looking worse than the doosra (they both look 'bad' on TV) but as we keep mentioning, it's pretty impossible to judge from a 2 dimensional screen.
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I think this is largely right, although personally I think the teesra looks a hell of a lot worse (it just looks like a full on throw to me) than the doosra.

Personally I would be amazed if the teesra is ok but it if is checked and cleared then shall not complain, the thing which is really frustrating is the 'it has been tested before, you are just moaning because you are losing argument.'
 
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