So are Australians really Chokers ??

[Tom Halsey]

Really, that's 2 of you now.

Where were you guys during the Allan Border Medal thread? It was hilarious, and made news headlines as well.

Absolutely hilarious, the skit was pure gold

Can you give a link to the thread? I can't find it.

 

[marc71178]

Yeah but he wins a lot.

You missed the h and e out of that 4th word.

 

[steds]

Can you give a link to the thread? I can't find it.

The thread.

Cricinfo's story.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Graeme's an astute enough chap, rest assured about that.

If by "astute enough chap" you mean "fat blow-hard", then yes, yes he is.

 

[Tom Halsey]

The thread.

Cricinfo's story.

Cheers.

 

[Richard]

The jury is well and truly out on that one.

The guy is still baiting Warne and still hasnt got a clue how to beat Aus.

Eng did the right thing - keep quiet and play good cricket.

Smith is 0/2 on that score.

England kept quiet - what planet are you on?
Smith certainly has a clue how to beat Aus, and had his fielders caught catches they might very well have done so. Smith can't be blamed for the drops, as his catching was immaculate as ever.

 

[Richard]

I'm sure you've seen footage of it? Ambrose was going nuts, Bevan standing tall, Harper claims a catch he dropped, 9 wickets down, 5 runs off 2 balls needed, McGrath takes a single, Bevan needs 4 runs off 1 ball, hits it over Harper's head for 4, Australia win.

I've heard of it - briefly - but never seen it. Was the first I'd heard of the Harper claim.
Dropped catched don't change the fact that Bevan did well to hit the last ball for 4, of course - but would he have been there to do so had Harper taken the catch?

 

[Richard]

To be fair though, Smith is disliked intensely by just about everyone, not just the Aussies.

Just like Bumble and Sourav - disliked in every place except his own dressing-room.
Border ('89 onwards) and Stephen Waugh weren't exactly excelled at winning friends, either.

 

[Richard]

Yeah but he wins a lot.

Err, so does Smith...?

 

[Richard]

If by "astute enough chap" you mean "fat blow-hard", then yes, yes he is.

Have you heard him extensively interviewed?
And, really... where does the "fat" bit come from?
Smith certainly has plenty of intelligence.

 

[steds]

Just like Bumble and Sourav - disliked in every place except his own dressing-room.

Bumble's a legend!

 

[Richard]

In the commentary-box he is but during his days as England coach (you may be too young to remember fully) he irritated the hell out of most people who he played against - but was widely loved in the England dressing-room. "We flippin' murdered 'em" and "I have my opinions that I have made known to the authorities" were merely the tip-of-the-iceberg.
Seriously - before the Ponting instance I can't remember anyone going off on one at Duncan Fletcher.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Have you heard him extensively interviewed?
And, really... where does the "fat" bit come from?
Smith certainly has plenty of intelligence.

It depends how you define "extensively". He's never said anything that struck me as anything above the quotidian platitudes most cricketers mouth in interviews. No particular insight or exegesis.

What annoys me about Fat Gray is the fact that he seems perfectly happy to dish out the verbals on the pitch, but when he gets some back he squeals to the media or (worse) to the match referee, as in the case when Vaughan rather mildly questioned an ump's decision to offer light during our 04/05 tour. I like to think of cricket as an extended fraternity (hopelessly romantic of me, but there you go) & giving evidence against a fellow pro is, to me, beyond the pale.

& the fat bit comes from having seen the fella. Try Google images, I'm sure he's on the net somewhere!

 

[steds]

the fat bit comes from having seen the fella. Try Google images, I'm sure he's on the net somewhere!

 

[Richard]

It depends how you define "extensively". He's never said anything that struck me as anything above the quotidian platitudes most cricketers mouth in interviews. No particular insight or exegesis.

What annoys me about Fat Gray is the fact that he seems perfectly happy to dish out the verbals on the pitch, but when he gets some back he squeals to the media or (worse) to the match referee, as in the case when Vaughan rather mildly questioned an ump's decision to offer light during our 04/05 tour. I like to think of cricket as an extended fraternity (hopelessly romantic of me, but there you go) & giving evidence against a fellow pro is, to me, beyond the pale.

& the fat bit comes from having seen the fella. Try Google images, I'm sure he's on the net somewhere!

Graeme is a well-built "fella". Not overweight at all.
When, by the way, did Smith "squeal to the media"? After his first Test, when Matthew Hayden accosted him "c'mon, then, yer f*c*in stupid k*nt, y'really think yer f*c*in good enough to beat us?" which, I have to say, would rather surprise most Test debutants. Has there really been any occasions since when he's acted the "oh, gosh, poor little me" role? No, he's been perfectly happy to dish it out aplenty, and in the recent Australia tour, make a conscious effort to deliberately divert all the aggro towards himself.
As for "telling tales" to Match Referees - what sensible pro would not try to get another into trouble if it would help his own cause? You may have all the virtuosity in The World, but I assure you - most people don't, and I personally find little shame in trying to cause trouble for someone else in order to help your own cause - Nasser has been doing enough of it with his constant "they've got to try and get the Ganguly issue going" comments.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Graeme is a well-built "fella". Not overweight at all.
When, by the way, did Smith "squeal to the media"? After his first Test, when Matthew Hayden accosted him "c'mon, then, yer f*c*in stupid k*nt, y'really think yer f*c*in good enough to beat us?" which, I have to say, would rather surprise most Test debutants. Has there really been any occasions since when he's acted the "oh, gosh, poor little me" role? No, he's been perfectly happy to dish it out aplenty, and in the recent Australia tour, make a conscious effort to deliberately divert all the aggro towards himself.
As for "telling tales" to Match Referees - what sensible pro would not try to get another into trouble if it would help his own cause? You may have all the virtuosity in The World, but I assure you - most people don't, and I personally find little shame in trying to cause trouble for someone else in order to help your own cause - Nasser has been doing enough of it with his constant "they've got to try and get the Ganguly issue going" comments.

Smith is well-built, but you only have to see him in the ODI top to see he does have an overly affectionate relationship with the pies. Hayden's well-built too, but he's clearly a slab of muscle.

A test debutant would be surprised to be greeted with some Anglo-Saxon, would he? Well only if they've never seen and/or read about the game! Aussies sledge?!? Wow. Who'da thunk it?! Poor wee Graeme must've had quite a shock when he opened his eyes, took his fingers out of his ears & emerged from his cave on Mars.

& finally can you name any of these "sensible pros" who've narked to the match referee? I've certainly missed them.

 

[Richard]

Smith is well-built, but you only have to see him in the ODI top to see he does have an overly affectionate relationship with the pies. Hayden's well-built too, but he's clearly a slab of muscle.

I'd say Hayden is closer to being overweight than Smith, but certainly neither are overweight or close, given their skill between wickets.
Indeed, it's almost unheard-of for any top-level cricketer to "have an overly affectionate relationship with the pies" these days - nutritionism is one of if not the most important part of cricketing fitness these days, and quite rightly. Any biologist will tell you that.

A test debutant would be surprised to be greeted with some Anglo-Saxon, would he? Well only if they've never seen and/or read about the game! Aussies sledge?!? Wow. Who'da thunk it?! Poor wee Graeme must've had quite a shock when he opened his eyes, took his fingers out of his ears & emerged from his cave on Mars.

Everyone knows about the "hey, Warnie, Nasser plays with a real open face, doesn't he" stuff - certainly not everyone knows about that level of IMO unacceptible derogatory talk. I didn't, for instance, until that. I'd be willing to bet most debutants would be astonished at being greeted by that.

& finally can you name any of these "sensible pros" who've narked to the match referee? I've certainly missed them.

How often does the opportunity arise? Often when it does (eg Murali) people shout it down as "telling tales" and that sort of rubbish.
Tell me - how was it not likely to be beneficial to South Africa for Vaughan to be in trouble when he was?

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'd say Hayden is closer to being overweight than Smith, but certainly neither are overweight or close, given their skill between wickets.
Indeed, it's almost unheard-of for any top-level cricketer to "have an overly affectionate relationship with the pies" these days - nutritionism is one of if not the most important part of cricketing fitness these days, and quite rightly. Any biologist will tell you that.

Everyone knows about the "hey, Warnie, Nasser plays with a real open face, doesn't he" stuff - certainly not everyone knows about that level of IMO unacceptible derogatory talk. I didn't, for instance, until that. I'd be willing to bet most debutants would be astonished at being greeted by that.

How often does the opportunity arise? Often when it does (eg Murali) people shout it down as "telling tales" and that sort of rubbish.
Tell me - how was it not likely to be beneficial to South Africa for Vaughan to be in trouble when he was?

It would be beneficial. You miss my gist, clearly. The point I was making is there are some things that just "aren't cricket". Claiming a catch you know has been grassed is one, grassing the oppo is another.

As for the sledging I refuse to believe anyone who has played FC cricket would be so naive as to be stunned to be sworn at. It goes on at all levels.

 

[Richard]

It would be beneficial. You miss my gist, clearly. The point I was making is there are some things that just "aren't cricket". Claiming a catch you know has been grassed is one, grassing the oppo is another.

Claiming a catch \ stumping \ whatever is cheating. Telling someone someone has done something wrong isn't. Vaughan was in the wrong for criticising the Umpiring - it's stipulated that you're not allowed to do that.
Equally, calling Murali a "fooking cheat and a fooking chucker" is abuse beyond the acceptible, and while Murali might've overreacted a bit he was right to be hurt by Hussain calling him that, especially when Hussain had always shown the utmost respect for everything Sri Lankan before. Nasser, being Nasser, got worked-up about it and got into the "running to teacher" bit.
There are other examples, I'm absolutely certain of it - Match Referees have been around for about 15 years or so now.
People are too much "anti-grassing" these days. Too much is seen as "being a grass". I don't like it and I'll not conceal that fact. Sometimes, "telling on" people is the best way to teach them a lesson. Smith and Vaughan clearly don't get on - both would obviously do most things to get one over on the other.

As for the sledging I refuse to believe anyone who has played FC cricket would be so naive as to be stunned to be sworn at. It goes on at all levels.

Not be stunned to be sworn at - stunned to be abused on that level, out of - frankly - nowhere. Like when I glanced into some place and some guy sitting nearby (who I'd never seen before in my life) yelled at me "y'won't get in the club lookin' like that ya forkin poff!" I'd shown no indication of even wanting to go in there (wasn't even a club, just a music-playing bar), I'd never seen this lad before in my life and had not even looked at him, and wasn't wearing anything unusual (trousers and t-shirt) and yet he absued me out of nothing. I wasn't surprised at being sworn at by a stranger - I was surprised at the abuse.
I glanced at him with eyebrows raised and no little contempt in my face. Smith talking to whoever the journalist he talked to was the same action. Not, of course, directly comparable but I still see that Hayden's attack was utterly unneccessary and un-called-for.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Claiming a catch \ stumping \ whatever is cheating. Telling someone someone has done something wrong isn't. Vaughan was in the wrong for criticising the Umpiring - it's stipulated that you're not allowed to do that.
Equally, calling Murali a "fooking cheat and a fooking chucker" is abuse beyond the acceptible, and while Murali might've overreacted a bit he was right to be hurt by Hussain calling him that, especially when Hussain had always shown the utmost respect for everything Sri Lankan before. Nasser, being Nasser, got worked-up about it and got into the "running to teacher" bit.
There are other examples, I'm absolutely certain of it - Match Referees have been around for about 15 years or so now.
People are too much "anti-grassing" these days. Too much is seen as "being a grass". I don't like it and I'll not conceal that fact. Sometimes, "telling on" people is the best way to teach them a lesson. Smith and Vaughan clearly don't get on - both would obviously do most things to get one over on the other.

Not be stunned to be sworn at - stunned to be abused on that level, out of - frankly - nowhere. Like when I glanced into some place and some guy sitting nearby (who I'd never seen before in my life) yelled at me "y'won't get in the club lookin' like that ya forkin poff!" I'd shown no indication of even wanting to go in there (wasn't even a club, just a music-playing bar), I'd never seen this lad before in my life and had not even looked at him, and wasn't wearing anything unusual (trousers and t-shirt) and yet he absued me out of nothing. I wasn't surprised at being sworn at by a stranger - I was surprised at the abuse.
I glanced at him with eyebrows raised and no little contempt in my face. Smith talking to whoever the journalist he talked to was the same action. Not, of course, directly comparable but I still see that Hayden's attack was utterly unneccessary and un-called-for.

I don't think Vaughan was in the wrong. He merely asked for some consistency. Test cricket isn't quite a police state yet. Fat Gray seemed only too obliging to give evidence against a fellow pro when, frankly, it should have been none of his concern. It shows a lack of respect for his opposite number & it was the incident after which I decided I had no time for the tubby lardster.

Contrast Smith's action with that of Ian Gough, the Welsh Rugby Union lock forward. Scott Murray, a Scottish player, was sent off (some would argue harshly, some not) for kicking Gough in the face. Gough actually submitted a letter to the authorities asking for clemency on Murray's behalf. That, to me, is the action of a good bloke. Play hard, but respect the oppo.

& I'm sorry you were sworn at in a club/pub, there are morons everywhere, but it's hardly an analogous situation, is it? Hayden was trying to test the mettle of Smith; to see what he was made of. I think he found out, personally.