Sledging or an excuse to get personal?

[duffer]

We should be allowed to sledge on CW.

 

[Black_Warrior]

It means you're Australian.

Yeah I was asking on McGrath and Steve Waugh's behalf.

 

[cnerd123]

There's a difference between talking **** to wind someone up, and personal insults.

Singing the Badger Song at a batsman from short leg is very different from calling his cancer-stricken wife a whore.

 

[Black_Warrior]

But it was a response. He started it. So basically we can't sledge back at him because his wife had cancer? You're at a cricket game, you will be judged as a player within the context of that game where you're a father, husband, son or whatever is irrelevant and of no consequence. You're just a cricketer, you use sledging as a strategy, you have to accept if the opposition resorts to it as well.

 

[cnerd123]

But it was a response. He started it. So basically we can't sledge back at him because his wife had cancer? You're at a cricket game, you will be judged as a player within the context of that game where you're not a father, husband, son or whatever. You're just a cricketer, you use sledging as a strategy, you have to accept if the opposition resorts to it as well.

You can sledge him. I disagree that sledging = personal insults.

The Mathews vs. Root incident is a good example of good sledging. Personal enough to annoy him, but not so much that it becomes nasty.

Basically if it's stuff you won't joke about with your friends IRL, it's no appropriate on a field. That's my take on it anyways. Sledging is to annoy, not to offend.

 

[Black_Warrior]

You can sledge him. I disagree that sledging = personal insults.

The Mathews vs. Root incident is a good example of good sledging. Personal enough to annoy him, but not so much that it becomes nasty.

Basically if it's stuff you won't joke about with your friends IRL, it's no appropriate on a field. That's my take on it anyways. Sledging is to annoy, not to offend.

Yeah but it's almost impossible to draw that line because it is subjective and depends on a host of factors, (including our own cultural, moral biases) including the match situation. Sometimes in really tough situations you react in certain ways. I don't think sledging can necessarily be policed or controlled. We can only draw a line between verbal and physical that's it. Sledging is almost always personal. It is the way you distract someone, by making them focus on something other than the match situation.

What people are saying, what is acceptable to some, not acceptable to others, what is nasty to some, who is going to police it? The umpires? They have a hard enough time calling no balls.

Either you allow sledging (of all kinds) or ban sledging. The middle ground that you're talking about is going to be different for different people and almost impossible to maintain.

 

[cnerd123]

Well yea, that's the job of the umpires. They step in when things get too heated the players go too far.

At the end of the day, what's acceptable or not will always depend on the people in the middle. My own opinion is that its all fair game until you start getting personal and nasty.

There is no need to legislate it, but there should be a discussion on where we draw a line, and a common understanding that if you cross the line you only have yourself to blame for any repercussions.

 

[Burner]

I find it a bit ironic how people who sledge make rules about how it should be done. That they draw a line somewhere and ask others to follow it as well.

Also on the McGrath instance how was Sarwan supposed to know that McGrath's wife had cancer?

 

[cnerd123]

I thought Sarwan knew and that's why he said it. It was a pretty public topic at the time IIRC.

Whose making the rules on how it should be done? I'm not aware of any sledging standards being set by anyone.

It's these weird reservations everyone has on this topic that make it so difficult to talk about. People have such strong opinions for and against sledging and turn it into this heated 'us versus them' thing.

Cricketers of all backgrounds have and will continue to sledge as long as the game is played. But the spirit in which it is being doing is important.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I thought Sarwan knew and that's why he said it. It was a pretty public topic at the time IIRC.

Whose making the rules on how it should be done? I'm not aware of any sledging standards being set.

Sarwan most definitely didn't know. Him and McGrath even cleared the whole thing up over a beer later IIRC.

About the rules thing, I think there are a few things that are accepted as "unwritten rules" by certain people, and they aren't for others. Eg: Lots of aussies (analysts and posters on the web) had a massive cry over Kohli's comments about Johnson in a press conference last summer, saying that talking to the media was "over the line" or whatever. I understand where they're coming from, as it can be seen akin to going crying to mommy, but the way some people went on about it was as though Kohli had broken some cardinal rule of sledging, when nothing of the kind exists. Kohli was a dick, sure, but assuming everyone should dare not make those comments to the media and it should all just stay on the field no matter what is just a bit ****ing rich if you ask me.

Then there were comments by lots of people how Kohli didn't have the right to have a go at Johnson at the presser anyway as he threw his wicket away at the close of play and India were losing the series. Excuse me? I have no clue what on earth that has to do with anything. Call Kohli a wanker if you want but again, this rule about how you only have the right to have a go at your opponent if you're winning is completely contradictory to what many people say about how sledging is done only to give you an advantage on the field. Sometimes, maybe. But mostly it's done by nincompoops who think they have the right to mouth off because their team is winning. Such complete rubbish.

Not even going to enter into the debate about what can be considered personal what isnt. Cultures are so different that something seemingly "in line" can be in very poor taste to others. The only rule in sledging should be "Don't be a complete wanker". That's all.

 

[mr_mister]

yeah back in 2003 when the sarwan/mcgrath spat happend (that famous chase, the last time many of us heard david hookes' voice on commentary) i dont remember hearing much about jane mcgrath in the news. a few years later it was everythere tho

 

[wpdavid]

I find it a bit ironic how people who sledge make rules about how it should be done. That they draw a line somewhere and ask others to follow it as well.

Also on the McGrath instance how was Sarwan supposed to know that McGrath's wife had cancer?

Sarwan just went on auto-pilot after McGrath asked him how Lara's dick tasted.

 

[cnerd123]

Yea, there are a lot of Aussie fans with the dumb bogan mentality, and a lot of fans who are very partisan and hypocritical when it comes to these issues (Asian fans are no better - Bangladesh of late have been a prime example. Always willing to dish out **** but quick to take offence in return).

But talking about that doesn't get to the core of the issue. What does Sledging represent in modern cricket? Are players are using it simply to put opponents off their game, or are they using it as means to express aggression to each other?

We've seen some really clever bits of sledging here and there, but we've also seen some really poor efforts - India in recent times come to mind. They just seem to be forcing themselves to talk **** for the sake of being 'aggressive'.

In some cases we've just seen things get so heated that it spills out into words - recent Ashes series a good example.

I feel this is something that needs to be addressed. It isn't a priority by any means (Cricket has far bigger problems to deal with), but it's something that I think the media, fans and players should have an honest discussion about.

IMO, sledging that stems from disrespect, or from a desire to cause offence, is completely unacceptable. And yes, there are cultural differences. But there are also a lot of similarities - I'm sure most people, no matter where in the world they are, would agree that racism, talking **** about someone's family, and threats of violence aren't cool. And it's quite easy to tell when someone is pulling your leg or when they're having a go at you, despite any language barriers.

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[Burner]

Sarwan just went on auto-pilot after McGrath asked him how Lara's dick tasted.

Yeah, definitely. Anyone who's asking someone about how someone else's dick tastes should be be unmarried and without a mother if they want it to not backfire.

Also ***** the comment was not directed at you. But I do disagree with you about sledging being kept decent. If you try to break a batsman's concentration by sledging, annoying or whatever you call it, you can't expect him to follow the same level of annoyancy (sledge-level?, nasty-level?).

 

[Howe_zat]

Whose making the rules on how it should be done? I'm not aware of any sledging standards being set by anyone..

This happens all the time, usually from Australians spouting something about 'the line'.

Here's a quote from Michael Clarke but it easily been from any of them because you've heard it a million times

“I think we play our cricket hard on the field but I think as Australians we understand and respect there’s a line you can’t cross.”

Once translated from the Australian English, it's clear the quote becomes 'I'm allow to threaten to break people's bones, Dave Warner is allowed to be as much of a **** as humanly possible because he's an aggressive batsman. Anyone doing it against us is a low-life cheat though, because they're not Australian, you understand."

 

[Jono]

McGrath was a horrendous dick on the field, and top bloke off it.

 

[Chrish]

How can one not love this?

 

[Flem274*]

No one worse than the one guy on a team who thinks he is gods gift to sledging and banter and won't shut up.

 

[Furball]

No one worse than the one guy on a team who thinks he is gods gift to sledging and banter and won't shut up.

Posts: 33,318

 

[Black_Warrior]

IMO, sledging that stems from disrespect, or from a desire to cause offence, is completely unacceptable. And yes, there are cultural differences. But there are also a lot of similarities - I'm sure most people, no matter where in the world they are, would agree that racism, talking **** about someone's family, and threats of violence aren't cool. And it's quite easy to tell when someone is pulling your leg or when they're having a go at you, despite any language barriers.

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Yeah but these things are absolutely impossible to police. Suppose someone makes a racist slur to another player, the latter reports, the player in question denies. What are you going to do? I am sure you weren't sleeping in 2007 right?
One guy's word against another. What do you do?

You are assuming the way things should work in an ideal situation. I am pointing out the way it actually works in reality. We all have our biases. We feel we 'our way of sledging' is right and 'their way' is wrong. There is no objective line of demarcation.

That's what I am trying to say, it's not possible to control or police this. Either you allow all kind of verbal sledging, or you ban it altogether.