Sledging is an art I feel.

[Sanz]

Didn't it go something along the lines of "We're not agreeing with your decision to ban Sehwag for one game so we'll play him anywhere. And we don't want him refereeing us again. Listen or we sulk. Sulk. Threaten to leave ICC"?

But how does that qualify as a racial remark by an Indian Player on/off the field ? UCBSA and BCCI both are to be blamed for it, not the Indian players.

 

[Sanz]

It doesn't, and he never claimed that it did.

He did claim that, when I wasked when was the last time Indian players pulled the race card on or off the field, he gave the example of Dennes's incident in SA.

 

[Sanz]

South Africa had nothing to do with that incident....

It was a fine being dished out by a respected ICC match referee for a series of punishable offences.. It was made clear by the Indians afterwards that they felt they were being "Discriminated against".. I have no specific quotes because it was a long while ago... But that was the general consensus at the time.. Their actions in boycotting the final test match were appaling and childish...
I feel the Indians were both highly immature in what they did, and let off very very lightly by the ICC...
By the way, I was referring to both players and the authorities...
Across the Jaffna Straight, Im sure Arjuna Ranatunga played the race card with Muralitharan once or twice, although I will be prepared to be proved wrong as a lot of it was before my time...

Im off to bed anyway/....

I guess you forgot that this discussion was about sledging by players not about any cricketing authority. Yes the Indians were immature and childish but it still doesn't prove your point taht Indian players were playing the race card. Yes they felt they were discriminated against but racially ?? During the recent Aus tour and then Pak tour they thought they were descriminated by Bucknor. Now why was that ?? Do you think that was also a racial thing ?

And yes SA was party to it by not obeying ICC, by agreeing to play against India under a different match ref.

I dont care what Arjun Ranatunga did in Murali issue, what do expect after being called 'Black Monkey' again and again.

 

[Anil]

Centurion Park I think it was...

Mike Deness?? Discrimination?? Pots and Kettles, Handbags??

when mike denness bore down very heavily only on one team and handed out punishments quite disproportionate to the "crimes", there looked like reasons beyond cricket for what he did. since he is not from either south africa or india, the logical conclusion for many was what you refer to as the "race card". this has nothing to do with sledging on the field.

when lehmann made a racist remark on a lankan player and when the lankan team complained, was that also "using the race card"? when a player is racially abused or discriminated against, how can anyone with any sense of fairness say that they are manipulating the system when they complain?

 

[Sanz]

Niel, Since we are talking about Dennes issue you here is an analogy. Read this post where this guy clearly calls Indians and Sri Lankans Racists but everyone ignored it.

Sledging is an art form and so is pulling the race card.

Sri Lanka and India allways pull the race card even though they would have to be the most racist people playing cricket.

Now sometime back I had started a thread 'Another Australian Another Honest mistake' ( basically in response to zillions of posts bashing Ganguly calling him as cheat) and that got me an indirect warning.

Does that mean that the Cricketweb Mods are racists - NO
But are they inconsistent - HELL YES. If I had said that 'South Africans & Austrlians are the most racist people playing cricket' everyone would have jumped on my and I would have got another warning.

The point is - Was Dennes Racist,NO, But was he inconsistent in handing out the warnings, Yes.

 

[V Reddy]

I dont care what Arjun Ranatunga did in Murali issue, what do expect after being called 'Black Monkey' again and again.

Yeah when you are kept being called "Black Monkey" , you expect nothing short than what Arjuna did against Australia. How can you criticise the Sri Lankan's for retaliating against a racial comment by Lehmann and particularly when Australian players have been known to make racial comments against them.

 

[Deja moo]

La Affaire Mike deness...

Indian players appealed too much.

South African players appealed too much.

Mike Deness punishes Sehwag ( one of the Appealers ) with 1 test ban.

South African players walk away scotfree..


Indians realise that unless drastic consequences are put forth, ICC will carry on ignoring such blatant bias.Such things had been going on for many matches before this. This incident was the proverbial last straw .

Mike Deness got what he deserved.

 

[twctopcat]

Even in the circumstances, I think Sarwan was in the right there.... When a grumpy fast bowler spouts **** like that, the "spirit" and "unwritten conduct" behind sledging just disappears...

Serves you right McGrath...

Race card? I think the Indians and the Sri Lankans are as bad as each other when it comes down to it..

I want to agree but then again wasn't Mcgrath's wife being treated for cancer at the time? I know Mcgrath was wrong but Sarwan's reply went perhaps a bit too far if she was.

 

[Neil Pickup]

He did claim that, when I wasked when was the last time Indian players pulled the race card on or off the field, he gave the example of Dennes's incident in SA.

Rich's interpretation of "Playing the Race Card" is that the Indians claimed racial discrimination was the cause of their bans. I've not seen any footage of the Centurion game so I really cannot comment in depth.

 

[Nate]

talking bout sledging... SANGAKARRA!! how bad can he be...

 

[Neil Pickup]

Niel, Since we are talking about Dennes issue you here is an analogy. Read this post where this guy clearly calls Indians and Sri Lankans Racists but everyone ignored it.

Now sometime back I had started a thread 'Another Australian Another Honest mistake' ( basically in response to zillions of posts bashing Ganguly calling him as cheat) and that got me an indirect warning.

Does that mean that the Cricketweb Mods are racists - NO
But are they inconsistent - HELL YES. If I had said that 'South Africans & Austrlians are the most racist people playing cricket' everyone would have jumped on my and I would have got another warning.

The point is - Was Dennes Racist,NO, But was he inconsistent in handing out the warnings, Yes.

I've just looked up the thread that you started - and personally, I let that one slide, as I have this one. With five different mods, you're never going to get identical judgments and verdicts on situations.

I'm of the opinion that self-regulation is often better than direct action - I try not to intervene as much as possible, and here I felt that the disdain that the post was treated with was enough for people to see it in the contempt it deserves.

However, in the name of consistency:

Sri Lanka and India allways pull the race card even though they would have to be the most racist people playing cricket.

Official warning. Much as you love stereotypes, please try looking at things from more than one point of view.

 

[marc71178]

Wasn't south Africa also party to that Incident ??

Under duress.

 

[marc71178]

UCBSA and BCCI both are to be blamed for it, not the Indian players.

If it weren't for the Indian players actions, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I personally don't see how the UCBSA can be blamed for the BCCI refusing to accept a decision by the referee.

 

[marc71178]

Read this post where this guy clearly calls Indians and Sri Lankans Racists but everyone ignored it.

I didn't ignore it, I dealt with it in the appropriate manner, and hoped that it would be brushed over.

 

[Deja moo]

If it weren't for the Indian players actions, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I personally don't see how the UCBSA can be blamed for the BCCI refusing to accept a decision by the referee.

Players from both teams appealed too much.Dont blame just the Indian players.

UCBSA , if they had a spine and felt that the BCCi was wrong, could have pulled out of the third test .

 

[Spetsnatz]

Players from both teams appealed too much.Dont blame just the Indian players.

UCBSA , if they had a spine and felt that the BCCi was wrong, could have pulled out of the third test .

Precisely. From the footage I saw of that game, South Africa's appealing was just as vociferous as India's yet Sehwag was singled out by Denness.

Granted the BCCI went on to act like petulant childrenbut it doesn't make Denness' actions any less questionable.
I do not think he deserves any sympathy over his role in that episode.
And the UCBSA certainly could have shown more backbone in standing up to the BCCI.
I don't see how they were acting under duress -- if they felt so strongly about being on the right side of the coin, they should have refused to play that third 'test' period.

 

[marc71178]

UCBSA , if they had a spine and felt that the BCCi was wrong, could have pulled out of the third test .

And financially ruin themselves, yeah good idea that.

 

[Kiwi]

On the topic of sledging it is quite funny to see that we are now being coached to sledge to a certain level now. I think it is a great thing as a good player should both be mentally and physically strong. We are in the end just inproving the players in that way.

However there is a line that has to be draw and nothing personal should be tolarated.

 

[PY]

Indians realise that unless drastic consequences are put forth, ICC will carry on ignoring such blatant bias.

I'm confused.

Wasn't it said that the Asian countries were basically in charge of the ICC because of their revenue and sheer size? Why would they be biased against themselves?

 

[Neil Pickup]

I'm confused.

Wasn't it said that the Asian countries were basically in charge of the ICC because of their revenue and sheer size? Why would they be biased against themselves?

By the ICC president himself.

I think it's called "having your cake and eating it".