thierry henry
International Coach
How could anyone possibly care about what other international cricketers think? Have you heard literally any commentator ever?
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Sir Vivian Richards - master or myth?
- Thread starter Lillian Thomson
- Start date
Burgey
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Having said that, Murali was a woeful fielder. Barely park cricket standard. I dunno what type of magic mushroom Migara was watching when he observed this apparently great fielding, but whatever they are i'd like some. they also had the quality of making Vaas express and truly a great bowler apparently.
Consistently the worst of the many oft-repeated tropes on this web site.
Migara
International Coach
KP was done and dusted after those two innings by Murali and Malinga. Murali at his height of prowess was 50-50 with Shewag (Sidhu played during the time Murali didn't have the doosra), but after 2007 circa, Murali had no chance against Shewag. Warne in his entire career never had a chance against Sidhu or Shewag. Those two are at a different level compared to players like KP or Lara (who were very good against spin). However Lara struggled against Saqlain and oddly Venkathapathy Raju (who was no good anywhere outside India). Sidhu and Shewag never had their kryptonite when it comes to spinners.
Migara
International Coach
i'd take that there is no arguments left so here comes a rancid bait.
Burgey
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Was that before he developed it or after he was told not to bowl it because it was >15 degrees?
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Such a crock. He was adequate at international level, and that’s about it. Stood at mid on/mid off, which is not where you put “great fieldsmen”
Flem274*
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i say this all the time. people love ex-players as soon as they like what they hear.
Chrish
International Debutant
To be fair Sehwag never faced Saqlain and Saqlain is arguably the only spinner to have success against India. It would have been fascinating contest.
Lara was an amazing player but he only went after the spinners after he got settled in. Sehwag on the other hand never gave a ****. He would start attacking spinners from delivery one regardless of the game situation.
On topic, yes past players in general regardless of the sports do benefit from some sort of fanaticism. It’s same for baseball where fans like to worship past players from 1800s - early 1900s and sort of neglect the current players in GOAT discussions.
I am not saying it does or doesn’t apply here but one should always be careful when overrating/ underrating the past players. Objective statistic is a better measuring parameter than subjective opinions.
nightprowler10
Global Moderator
Do you mean he never faced Saqlain in his prime? Because I'm pretty sure he took Saqi apart in '03/04.
Chrish
International Debutant
You are right. They played one game against each other in 2004 where Viru hit a triple..
I agree with you regarding Murali's outfield catching. There were multiple ODI tournaments in the late 90s where his name figured in the best catches taken section (like one of them in below video). I was genuinely surprised when I first saw him drop a catch. But I don't know about other aspects of his fielding though.
It's different. It's not just about being carefree or having a high strike-rate. I don't know if there were many instances of Sehwag single-mindedly targeting opposition's main strike bowlers in Test match cricket & pulling it off successfully. Viv pulled it off successfully multiple times against some of the best bowlers in the game (yes, he didn't do it each & every time, and yes, he failed several times as well - no denying that). The game in Sehwag's era was also significantly more batsmen friendly than it was in Viv's era. And I also think Viv's destructive batting capabilities were displayed in a wider variety of tough batting conditions than Sehwag's - ranging from hammering 109* off 110 balls in the 4th innings on a deteriorated turning pitch in India in 1987, to opening the batting for his team against Thommo & Lillee in 75-76 Test series and hammering 101 (off 130 deliveries), 50 (off 54) and 98 (off 100 deliveries) etc. There were occasions where bowlers of the caliber of Lillee went for nearly 5 RPO in Test match cricket.
In late 90s, when Aravinda De Silva was asked by an Indian reporter to name the best batsman he saw, De Silva instantly replied that Viv was the best batsman he saw. De Silva reasoned - "If you look at the way he [Viv] played, frequently going after opposition's best bowlers, and then look at his figures, they just don't make sense". As I said earlier, Viv's greatness was how bad his stats weren't. Ideally Viv should have retired way earlier (after his last Australian tour in 1988) rather than hanging around till he was well past 39 years of age. His career stats suffered a bit because of that. And like many other cricketers of that era, he didn't play as much Test cricket in his prime years of 22-30 (because of Packer cricket).
As far as impact on fellow cricketers is concerned, there's just no comparison. Even way back in mid-80s when bowlers like Imran, Lillee, Holding etc. talked about Viv, their awe was palpable. These were some great bowlers, fierce and immensely proud competitors. It's not in their nature to wax undue poetic praise on their opposition (especially even while careers were still active for some of them). Not just his era, Viv's batting inspired a whole next generation of players across different cricketing Nations. When someone as great as Brian Lara says "Sir Gary was great, but this man [Viv] is the best I have seen pick up a cricket bat", it's a pretty rich praise.
To this day Lara still rates Viv as the best batsman he has seen. Shane Warne, Inzi, Javed Miandad, Ian Botham, Barry Richards, Mohammed Azharuddin, Aravinda De Silva etc. [the list is pretty big] share a similar opinion.
Do we have to blindly take the opinions of these great cricketers as the Gospel truth? Nah. Not necessary. Question begs though - why do so many great cricketers of 70s, 80s & 90s (from different countries) go out of their way to single out Viv as the best they have seen. I certainly don't think it is just blind romanticism of a certain era. IMO if one hasn't seen Viv bat live at his peak, it's pretty much impossible to understand.
Coronis
International Coach
Lara would've never seen Sobers bat, or if he had, it would have been at the extreme twilight of his career. Have you heard Warne's opinions on who should play for India? I don't trust his word at all.
ankitj
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
"I don't consider off spinners bowlers" LMAO
Senile Sentry
International Debutant
ankitj
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Viru has top notch knocks against each of Warne, Murali, MacGill and Saqlain. Not sure if there is anyone else truly special in the spin department from the era. Mushtaq Ahmed was before Viru's time.Certainly has a claim to be considered one of the best ever against spin.
Siddhu's name appearing in these discussions regularly is kinda random.
Siddhu's name appearing in these discussions regularly is kinda random.
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I don’t think he was better than average but this thread is a Viv thread so