Should we be patient with Michael Beer?

[Spark]

I have drawn a complete blank on Nathan Lyon. Can't remember seeing him bowl at all/

Seems to get some very nice dip and a bit of turn, which is exciting to hear - but yeah I haven't seen him in FC cricket.

 

[Nate]

Here is some footage.

Echoing Noble One, I believe he and O'Keefe to be easily ahead of our other spinners atm. This season will be crucial for them, both by the way they bowl and how they are treated by the selectors.

 

[Nate]

Seems to get some very nice dip and a bit of turn, which is exciting to hear - but yeah I haven't seen him in FC cricket.

YOU ARE MISSING OUT z

 

[Cevno]

Think Australia would be better served if they could find a wrist spinner instead of a finger spinner .
As in home matches quality wrist spinners will be more effective than finger spinners who would largely be restricted to playing a holding role and exploiting rough maybe on the last days at some venues if they are good enough.

Steve Smith at this stage is a work in progress and can't see him doing too well in Test cricket at the moment.
Any other wrist spinners at domestic level who are up to any decent standard?

 

[Nate]

Think Australia would be better served if they could find a wrist spinner instead of a finger spinner

You pick your best four bowlers. How it comes out of their hand shouldn't come into it.

 

[Spark]

YOU ARE MISSING OUT z

I tried OK! I listened to Grandstand

EDIT: Oh if we're talking BB then yes I have seen him, unfortunately Leemann's channel seems to have been deleted. CA/Youtube DIAF

 

[Cevno]

You pick your best four bowlers. How it comes out of their hand shouldn't come into it.

The four best bowlers for the surface they are playing on surely?

I am not suggesting that they pick any wrist spinner how much **** he is instead of a finger spinner.
But that if there are say 2 equal bowlers among the bowlers they are trying at the moment then they would be better served with sticking and being patient with a wrist spinner than a finger spinner for their surfaces.

 

[Debris]

Here is some footage.

Echoing Noble One, I believe he and O'Keefe to be easily ahead of our other spinners atm. This season will be crucial for them, both by the way they bowl and how they are treated by the selectors.

Very brief look but he does look to have a classical action. Hard to judge on such a short look so I will defer to others opinions until I can see him bowl a longer stint.

 

[Noble One]

You pick your best four bowlers. How it comes out of their hand shouldn't come into it.

Exactly. No point throwing the likes of a Cameron Boyce or Cullen Bailey into a higher level of cricket due to the direction they turn the ball. A quality leg-spinner would be great, but you cannot suddenly unearth one when required.

We must make do with the traditional finger spinners who form the top five or six spin bowlers in this country (excluding Smith who is our one WIP).

 

[Debris]

Think Australia would be better served if they could find a wrist spinner instead of a finger spinner .
As in home matches quality wrist spinners will be more effective than finger spinners who would largely be restricted to playing a holding role and exploiting rough maybe on the last days at some venues if they are good enough.

Steve Smith at this stage is a work in progress and can't see him doing too well in Test cricket at the moment.
Any other wrist spinners at domestic level who are up to any decent standard?

As mentioned before, I think Cameron Boyce is worth a look and I think is already a better wicket-taking proposition than any of the finger spinners mentioned. Cullen Bailey is the other one but he seems to have regressed a lot.

 

[Cevno]

Exactly. No point throwing the likes of a Cameron Boyce or Cullen Bailey into a higher level of cricket due to the direction they turn the ball. A quality leg-spinner would be great, but you cannot suddenly unearth one when required.

We must make do with the traditional finger spinners who form the top five or six spin bowlers in this country (excluding Smith who is our one WIP).

Are the likes of Doherty,Krezja and Beer really better than them though?

If that is the case then fair enough but their FC records seem similar.

 

[Nate]

As mentioned before, I think Cameron Boyce is worth a look and I think is already a better wicket-taking proposition than any of the finger spinners mentioned. Cullen Bailey is the other one but he seems to have regressed a lot.

Really? What are you basing that on?

 

[Nate]

EDIT: Oh if we're talking BB then yes I have seen him, unfortunately Leemann's channel seems to have been deleted. CA/Youtube DIAF

Nah, was talking First Class.

And yeah, uh oh Leeman.

 

[Spikey]

Cameron Boyce is still living off the final isn't he

 

[Ruckus]

The thing with selecting a spinner is that you need to select who you think is the best available and stick with him for a period of time, not just one test if they fail or don't immediately succeed. Give them a chance to succeed or fail on their own accord.

If the selectors think he was the right man for the job, then stick with him.

I agree with that as a general rule of thumb, but in the case of Beer I'm not sure the selectors genuinely believed, or had good reasons to believe, he was the best available (the world cup quote makes you kind of suspicious).

So given that, I don't really see the point in persisting with someone for an extended period of time if you had no really good reasons to choose them in the first place. From what I've seen of Beer, he seems a decent, but not an extraordinary bowler by any means. The selectors may have seen qualities in him which have eluded most of us, but I doubt it. I think his selection was pretty whimsical (and suspiciously coincided with Warne's approval of him).

In terms of potential, surely it has to be Lyon first. He looks like he could be a seriously good bowler. You can't really go past O'Keefes record so far either.

 

[Debris]

Really? What are you basing that on?

It is just a personal opinion after seeing him bowl, which is all you really get to go on when trying to identify future talent. He is still very raw but is only 21.

 

[Andre]

You pick your best four bowlers. How it comes out of their hand shouldn't come into it.

True, but then, on that basis, you couldn't possibly pick a spinner for our side at the moment. No way is there one good enough going around at the moment.

That said it is pretty universally agrred that we need to pick one. In that case, I'd go back to Hauritz for a few of reasons:

1. We do need a reasonable containing bowling option in the side. He could do the job that guys like Harris, Giles etc. have done for their sides only he is a better bowler and more likely to trouble batsmen in the air.

2. Clarke's captaincy is far, far superior to that of Ponting in terms of handling spin bowlers. When Hauritz was backed, he performed. When Punter lost faith, so did he. He deserves to show he can do the job under a captain with some sort of spin sensibility.

3. He's the most capable of doing a job in Test cricket for us until Lyon Boyce Holland etc. develop further. He's proven at worst that he is a fair containing bowler at that level which most of the others haven't. None of the other spin candidates are noted strike options, either (if someone cries Krejza, can they please have a look at his career record).

 

[Noble One]

Everytime I watch Cameron Boyce for an over I get excited as he generally lands his deliveries nicely. The issue is they don't turn and he has little variety. I agree, not a likely talent. Queensland is the worst state to try and make your name as a spinner which will restrict any possible talent he may have.

 

[Spark]

I agree with that as a general rule of thumb, but in the case of Beer I'm not sure the selectors genuinely believed, or had good reasons to believe, he was the best available (the world cup quote makes you kind of suspicious).

So given that, I don't really see the point in persisting with someone for an extended period of time if you had no really good reasons to choose them in the first place. From what I've seen of Beer, he seems a decent, but not an extraordinary bowler by any means. The selectors may have seen qualities in him which have eluded most of us, but I doubt it. I think his selection was pretty whimsical (and suspiciously coincided with Warne's approval of him).

In terms of potential, surely it has to be Lyon first. He looks like he could be a seriously good bowler. You can't really go past O'Keefes record so far either.

Seriously man you should stick around more.

 

[Cevno]

Btw, is O'Keefe still not rated enough as a specialist bowler after the 2010/11 FC season?