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Should Ross Taylor make a New Zealand Greatest Test XI?

Should Taylor make the all time NZ test eleven?


  • Total voters
    14

Flem274*

123/5
After thirty tests, Taylor averages over forty with five test centuries to his name. So all in all, a good start you might say, especially considering he practically opens half the time because New Zealand batting is notorious for starting at number four.

The New Zealand all time test eleven as voted by the cricinfo panel was;

Glenn Turner
Stewie Dempster
Bert Suttcliffe
Martin Crowe
Martin Donnelly
John R. Reid
Richard Hadlee
Daniel Vettori
Ian Smith
Shane Bond
Jack Cowie

Some good calls there, and quality players all, but some are short on tests. The reasons vary from injury, world wars and selectorial stupidity regarding players contracted to County Cricket.

The judges decided Dempster, despite playing just ten tests and dominating, had enough runs behind him to get in ahead of Mark Richardson and John Wright. Likewise Martin Donnelly, Taranaki's finest, played seven tests and while he was excellent, he was voted in ahead of the likes of Stephen Fleming, Andrew Jones, Nathan Astle and John F. Reid. I'm assuming both made it in based on county records and contemporary accounts, because both were highly acclaimed batsmen in their time and I'm gutted I've never seen any footage of these guys at their work.

I'm not going to delve into whether the players who missed out already should have made it or not, I'm talking Rosco for the moment. Taylor has more tests and more hundreds than Dempster and Donnelly combined, and his record stacks up favourably against other New Zealand greats. He has as many hundreds and averages more than Bert Suttcliffe in twelve less tests. One more hundred to his name and he will draw equal to John R. Reid.

Of course, that's just the stats. Ross Taylor at the crease has proven himself to be a consistent contributor, though he does have a tendency to get dismissed cheaply on the rare occasion we're not staring down the barrel of a first innings demolition. Sometimes he looks like he knows the weight of the world rests on his shoulders as well, and can be pretty nervy early on. This is in contrast to Jesse Ryder, who walks out grinning whether we're 20/3 or 300/3 and proceeds to stroke the ball elegantly through the covers for four even if the entire fielding side is between point and mid off. His smile is even wider if he is facing India and the pitch is a road.

Speaking of the most acrobatic small building in Wellington, his numbers compare favourably with several players in the cricinfo eleven as well; three hundreds in sixteen tests at a tick under forty five. He could have been playing test cricket at nineteen if he didn't hit the drink.

But back to Taylor; his record, in New Zealand terms, is right up there. He's just twenty seven years old and he's only going to add hundreds to his column as he goes forward. There is no doubt in my mind Ross Taylor will command a place in the New Zealand all time side when he retires. Ryder will as well; the only obstacle in his way is himself.

But my question to you is, should Ross Taylor make the New Zealand all time test eleven right now?
 
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Athlai

Not Terrible
Right now I wouldn't have him ahead of Fleming who I'd have instead of Donelly. He'd be in my second XI without a doubt though.
 

Howe_zat

Audio File
I Shane Bond gets in on the basis of potential rather than career achievements, there's nothing to stop Taylor.
 

Himannv

Hall of Fame Member
I Shane Bond gets in on the basis of potential rather than career achievements, there's nothing to stop Taylor.
In the few tests that he's played, Bond has been excellent. Taylor on the other hand hasn't yet achieved that level of performance. Is Taylor really better than Fleming though?
 

sanga1337

U19 Captain
Wouldn't have him in front of Fleming or Astle. Those two have achieved more throughout their careers than taylor has so far, although I can easily imagine Taylor leapfrogging them both by the end of his career.

They should all be ahead of Donnelly though, can't see how you can put him in the all-time 11 when he has only played 7 matches
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
No. Not even close at this stage, IMO. A talented player who is also extremely frustrating and lacks the necessary composure to make an all-time XI at this time.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Plenty ahead of him, I'd say

More of a case for Mark Richardson, I'd say, but even though I suspect their averages are poorer than Taylor's, you'd have to look at people like John Wright, Andrew Jones, Bev Congdon, Jeremy Coney or possibly Geoff Howarth ahead of him, or at least in the same bracket. Fleming and Astle would be comfortably ahead to my mind. 5 centuries just isn't enough for an all-time XI. He'd be on the cusp of the 2nd XI to my mind.

Vettori pretty lucky to make it. Would be very tempting to go for an all seam attack with Chris Cairns in there, one would feel. Mind you, you'd probably either need to bring in Coney or Congdon for someone, or expect a lot of overs from Donnelly?
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
I think if he had a better last few series (against India especially) and had a couple more centuries he would have a stronger case. Athlai has a good point that Fleming may be more deserving than him.
 

Flem274*

123/5
Plenty ahead of him, I'd say

More of a case for Mark Richardson, I'd say, but even though I suspect their averages are poorer than Taylor's, you'd have to look at people like John Wright, Andrew Jones, Bev Congdon, Jeremy Coney or possibly Geoff Howarth ahead of him, or at least in the same bracket. Fleming and Astle would be comfortably ahead to my mind. 5 centuries just isn't enough for an all-time XI. He'd be on the cusp of the 2nd XI to my mind.

Vettori pretty lucky to make it. Would be very tempting to go for an all seam attack with Chris Cairns in there, one would feel. Mind you, you'd probably either need to bring in Coney or Congdon for someone, or expect a lot of overs from Donnelly?
To play devils advocate, how do you feel about Suttcliffe and Donnelly making the eleven with five and one century respectively? Does John Reid's bowling do enough to edge him ahead of Taylor and Cairns?
 

Flem274*

123/5
In the few tests that he's played, Bond has been excellent. Taylor on the other hand hasn't yet achieved that level of performance. Is Taylor really better than Fleming though?
That's an interesting one. Fleming was fantastic against spin bowling and was a consistent run maker, but his big downside was his conversion rate. On the plus side, once he got to a hundred he usually made it a big one.

I can definitely see why a Sri Lankan would rate Fleming higher than Taylor considering his success in Sri Lanka.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
To play devils advocate, how do you feel about Suttcliffe and Donnelly making the eleven with five and one century respectively? Does John Reid's bowling do enough to edge him ahead of Taylor and Cairns?
From what I know, and obviously I've not seen them play, that they were standout players at first class level - head and shoulders above their peers. Yes, equally talented players have failed to make the leap from FC ---> International, but in their limited opportunities, Donnelly and Sutcliffe both showed that they were capable of making the leap. I have also been told, albeit anecdotally, by a couple of good old fellas who know their cricket, that Donnelly was the best Kiwi batsmen they've seen in their lifetime.

As such, I don't feel they're out of place.

As an aside, the main street of Petone has a "Sports Walk of Fame" on it - plaques in the pavement highlighting the great and good of Petone sports. Allan Hewson, Tana Umaga even Iain O'Brien has been recently given a plaque. It's to Petone's shame that Stewie Dempster's plaque - which has been there for years - reads "C.S. Demtsper".
 

Flem274*

123/5
As an aside, the main street of Petone has a "Sports Walk of Fame" on it - plaques in the pavement highlighting the great and good of Petone sports. Allan Hewson, Tana Umaga even Iain O'Brien has been recently given a plaque. It's to Petone's shame that Stewie Dempster's plaque - which has been there for years - reads "C.S. Demtsper".
Never knew Petone had that. Might have a look if I'm ever there.

:laugh: at Dempster's plate. Poor bloke.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Never knew Petone had that. Might have a look if I'm ever there.
It's interesting, but it starts to get a bit niche at various points with table tennis champions from the 1930s and the like. Even NZ Indoor Cricketers have made their way into the Walk of Fame.
 

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