Should Langer be dropped for Jaques?

[Great Birtannia]

Na-uh. No Jones. Big difference IMO.

Jones only dismissed him once in the last series but yes I realise there are other implied points to that statement. Anyway it was a hypothetical question on whether Jaques would replace a batsman that started the series in poor form and I think Martyn should be on shakier ground than JL in that situation. That is not to say that Martyn should be replaced now nor that he will fail in the series just that if starts off poorly he should be on the block with Jaques in rare form.

 

[Neil Pickup]

If my life depended on Australia winning the Ashes, I'd pick Jacques ahead of Langer, no question. In my view, Jacques is a gun - a potential 5000 run Test batsman. By contrast, I think both in terms of consistency and ability to handle hostile, short-pitched bowling, Langer is on the decline.

Put it this way, if England could pick the Aussie team, they'd pick Langer ahead of Jacques.

I would rather we were bowling against Jacques than Langer. Yes, he's smacked us around twice this week, but Langer is one awkward git to get out, and you need one of those in a side - not for nothing was he the pick of the batters in the last series.

As an Aussie selector, I'd pick Jacques at three, shift Ponting down to four, then Hussey and only one of the possibly weak Symonds/Clarke/Martyn/Watson ball game.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Hmm tough one. I voted no, because I think that Langer over all is better coped for the Ashes. He has masses of expirience, and would be your best bet IMO. By all means give Jaques a chance against weaker oppostion, but don't risk it in the Ashes.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Fairly certain that homeboy's name is Jaques.

 

[PhoenixFire]

Fairly certain that homeboy's name is Jaques.

And you'd be right.

 

[tooextracool]

Put it this way, if England could pick the Aussie team, they'd pick Langer ahead of Jacques.

If England could pick the Aussie team, they'd pick Andrew Symonds to open the batting IMO. Probably because Duncan Fletcher 'likes his personality'

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Why would England pick Langer over Jaques anyway?

Langer is the one who has proven he can score good runs against England in TEST cricket. He's the one who has scored runs practically all over the world against some quality bowlers. Jaques may be in good nick in the warmup games, but so was Marlon Samuels when the West Indies toured Australia last. And look what he accomplished - nothing.

I'd much sooner take a player proven quality at the highest level than a player proven quality at domestic level. At least until the former shows that he can no longer cope with top level cricket. As the opposition, I'd take Jaques first up.

 

[Johnners]

Take a gamble, play young Moses at 6.

Seriously though, i'm of the opinion that Martyn's place is on a lot shakier ground than Langers. He's been in dire FC form, Langer hasn't, and as it has been pointed out before hand, Jaques has spent a decent amount of time batting at 4, and could easily slot into the middle order. BUT, the biggest problem i see with this is if he starts gunning it at 4, you have to then make ANOTHER change to our middle order when Langer/Hayden retire/get dropped.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

BUT, the biggest problem i see with this is if he starts gunning it at 4, you have to then make ANOTHER change to our middle order when Langer/Hayden retire/get dropped.

Why?

If you have middle order batsmen waiting on the sidelines and a player who has proven that he can score runs in the middle order and against the new ball, why not just move said player to the top of the order and slot one of the waiting list into the middle order?

That said, there is the argument that Jaques may prove he's a capable middle order batsman in Tests, but that doesn't mean he's a capable opener in Tests. That, even though he's been prolific opening the batting in FC cricket.

 

[Johnners]

Why?

If you have middle order batsmen waiting on the sidelines and a player who has proven that he can score runs in the middle order and against the new ball, why not just move said player to the top of the order and slot one of the waiting list into the middle order?

That said, there is the argument that Jaques may prove he's a capable middle order batsman in Tests, but that doesn't mean he's a capable opener in Tests. That, even though he's been prolific opening the batting in FC cricket.

While what you say may be true. Given the turbulent nature of our Middle Order lately stability should be made a key. A lack of it is half the reason it's been so dire of late imo (with the exception of Hussey).

 

[Mister Wright]

While what you say may be true. Given the turbulent nature of our Middle Order lately stability should be made a key. A lack of it is half the reason it's been so dire of late imo (with the exception of Hussey).

Yeah, but if a middle order spot were to be vacant, surely Jaques would at least be given a chance. Hussey has proven if you're an opener you can bat in the middle order. At least doing that would give Jaques international experience until an opener's spot became available. It isn't like there are any other batsman in the country who are scoring runs like Jaques is at domestic level to press for a spot in the middle order, which is why Martyn was recalled.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I think the biggest qualm over a traditional opener heading down the order is being exposed to quality spin early in his innings (a la Greg Blewett). After that, it's the whole psychology of waiting to bat (Matthew Elliott?). If you've got confidence that the player can handle that, then it's worth attempting.

 

[Mister Wright]

I think the biggest qualm over a traditional opener heading down the order is being exposed to quality spin early in his innings (a la Greg Blewett). After that, it's the whole psychology of waiting to bat (Matthew Elliott?). If you've got confidence that the player can handle that, then it's worth attempting.

Yeah, of course. Those are extremely valid points. However, I think Jaques would be able to handle it.

 

[Perm]

Definately not. Langer will be a lynchpin of the Australia batting lineup I feel.

 

[Matt79]

I should point out that in starting this thread I was NOT advocating Langer be dropped - I voted no on the poll. It's just that a lot of media 'experts' were decrying the fact Jaques is likely not to play in Brisbane, and saying that Langer was under the blowtorch - I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought.

 

[age_master]

No way.

Like a lot of test batsman before him. Jaques will have to wait in line and hope he is making more runs than other potential candidates when the time comes for a permanent replacement.

yep, Langer is a class player and i reakon he will have a huge ashes

 

[Nate]

Check out the poll on www.baggygreen.com.au

 

[Matt79]

TBF, the poll doesn't specify WHO should make way for Jaques, so more people are going to vote "yes" than would be the case if they had nominated a specific player. If nobody nails down the #6 spot, or if Ponting, Martyn or Hussey were injured or something, I'd be interested to see Jaques tried in the middle order.

 

[chaminda_00]

TBF, the poll doesn't specify WHO should make way for Jaques, so more people are going to vote "yes" than would be the case if they had nominated a specific player. If nobody nails down the #6 spot, or if Ponting, Martyn or Hussey were injured or something, I'd be interested to see Jaques tried in the middle order.

Jaques is a middle order batsmen, he started his 1st Class career for Notts (i think) at Number 3. He played at 3, for two seasons. When he came back to Australia, he was asked to open the batting, cus there was no spots in the middle. Im pretty sure at the time we had a middle order of Katich, M Waugh, S Waugh/Bevan, Clarke.

 

[Mister Wright]

TBF, the poll doesn't specify WHO should make way for Jaques, so more people are going to vote "yes" than would be the case if they had nominated a specific player. If nobody nails down the #6 spot, or if Ponting, Martyn or Hussey were injured or something, I'd be interested to see Jaques tried in the middle order.

While that probably should happen. I think the next in line for a #6 spot or replacing Martyn or Hussey for injury it would either be Clarke or Hodge IMO. If Ponting were to be injured I think Jaques would be the replacement, however I'll doubt he'll get the #6 spot, as the selectors want that to go to a batter who bowls - either in the form of Watson or Clarke (with his ability to bowl spin).