Should Darrel Hair be officially fined and banned ?

[Burgey]

Baseless allegations of cheating against a team which has a volatile history w.r.t that issue and then being bull headed and blinded by his own ego when common sense could have prevailed......... He deserves to go, mate... Simple mistake would be getting a LBW or a caught behind wrong and even those can change games. This one changed the whole landscape of relations between the cricket boards of the world... well, almost did.

It did nothing like change the whole landscape of relations between the cricket boards of the world. Even if he was a biased, racist so and so (and I for one do not think that is sustainable) it's a massive stretch to say that his actions changed the "whole landscape of relations" between the various boards of the world, or almost did.

That's a massive over-reaction. He's one umpire (the other doesn't rate a mention in all this by the way - he could have appeared at the hearing and said he disagreed with Hair but did not). It's like saying Afridi scuffing the pitch up against England earlier this year and having a hearing over that "almost changed the cricketing relations betwen the boards of the world".

He made an accusation, the accusation was not sustained at the hearing. Inzi over-reacted (its official, see the verdict of the referee) and forfeited a test match (the first time in over 120 years) and got a slap over the wrist with a warm lettuce leaf for depriving plenty of people the opportunity to see some cricket. Other avenues were available to Inzi, which he well knew about - or if he didn't he shouldn't be the captain of an international team, and he didn't take them.

What landscape changed? Even if every other Board in the world said they had a problem with Hair as well, do you think that would be enough to get them to stop their petty squabbles over so many other issues? That it would bind them together to present a united face to the world? Please!

Getting lbws and things like that wrong is part of the game. Why isn't getting a decision wrong on something like this also part of the game? Umpires have to make decisions every day. They also have to make decisions about tampering and other contentious issues. Imo Hair didn't handle this well, but if you hang, draw and quarter an umpire over his handling of an issue like this, where do you draw the line? Either take the power to handle this issue away from the umpires on the field as they did with the disgraceful decision to "review" actions, or don't complain when they police the rules as they are but get it wrong. You cant have it both ways.

 

[honestbharani]

I dont think he is racist. Bias is a relative term here. But I do think he is hasty and has a big ego and doesn't apply common sense when he must. So I think he is not good enough to be an elite umpire.


BTW, you need some sort of solid evidence before you make such sweepy charges and he didn't have that. NOt the same as getting a LBW or a caught behind wrong.

 

[Legglancer]

U do know that people have been sued over comments made in forums dont you?

Yes I do .... and I stand by my info .....

 

[FRAZ]

I dont think he is racist. .

Racist is an obvious and quite a good assumption but IMHO I guess manipulating and ruining the "discretion power" is what has been the problem minus that obvious and absolutely rubbish ball-tempering thing.
There are certain things which a person can use against the other person if has a "discretion power" . In such cases "benefits of the doubt" are on 99 % occasions have been given against the teams of some countries (where it is believed that Hair is racist) . Well there are certain ways to dodge the people and to tease them and to treat them un-fairly by using this "human discretion power" .. I have seen cops giving tickets to the cab drivers (Who are even at a slight "discretion faults) and in the mean time I have seen them(Police officers) being ridiculous at their facial expressions and I have seen them never being polite to the Taxi drivers(*99% are immigrants) . And I have never seen the police to be at the same level of stupidity while being with any "normal to them" looking ordinary driver .. So It's not a perfect world but atleast we can try to hunt down as many black-sheeps (Hair) as possible!

 

[Krishna_j]

Darrell Hair's clumsy attempt to wring a financial deal for himself and his vested interest in not announcing to the pak team forfeiture of the match - has certainly tainted his reputation irredeemably.

One shudders to think the heavy handed reaction if an asian umpire had been involved.

Too often we have seen the Aussies get away with blatant unsporting behaviour in the name of competitivenes - Slater @ Dravid Mumbai 2001 ; McGrath @ Sachin 1999 ; Warne @ Salim Malik etc

Just b'cause an Aussie is involved doesn't mean one is not infalliable Mr Hair included

.... Ala Cronje somewhere down a dark alley a sinister matchfixing story may yet emerge on how England somehow won a match Pakistan could not have hoped to lose

 

[Burgey]

Racist is an obvious and quite a good assumption but IMHO I guess manipulating and ruining the "discretion power" is what has been the problem minus that obvious and absolutely rubbish ball-tempering thing.
There are certain things which a person can use against the other person if has a "discretion power" . In such cases "benefits of the doubt" are on 99 % occasions have been given against the teams of some countries (where it is believed that Hair is racist) . Well there are certain ways to dodge the people and to tease them and to treat them un-fairly by using this "human discretion power" .. I have seen cops giving tickets to the cab drivers (Who are even at a slight "discretion faults) and in the mean time I have seen them(Police officers) being ridiculous at their facial expressions and I have seen them never being polite to the Taxi drivers(*99% are immigrants) . And I have never seen the police to be at the same level of stupidity while being with any "normal to them" looking ordinary driver .. So It's not a perfect world but atleast we can try to hunt down as many black-sheeps (Hair) as possible!

I dunno mate. I work in the law and I've seen police act stupidly with ridiculous facial expressions to all sorts of people. I think they teach it at the Academies all over the world......

 

[FRAZ]

I dunno mate. I work in the law and I've seen police act stupidly with ridiculous facial expressions to all sorts of people. I think they teach it at the Academies all over the world......

I have quite a good experience while working in the law enforcement field and actualy I am applying for the Provincial police . Hmmm you are wrong becaue all the fingers of the hand are not equal at all " .
By the way I guess you also agree with me that staying inside the line of law a person can act badly ??

 

[Burgey]

No offence meant mate, my comments were made with tongue planted firmly in cheek. Hope you don't have to give me a ticket someday.....

Oh yeah, I agree with you. History is replete with examples, cricket in particular - Bodyline and Underarm spring to mind as things which were within the laws of the game but had a decidedly bad smell about them.

 

[FRAZ]

No offence meant mate, my comments were made with tongue planted firmly in cheek. Hope you don't have to give me a ticket someday.....

Oh yeah, I agree with you. History is replete with examples, cricket in particular - Bodyline and Underarm spring to mind as things which were within the laws of the game but had a decidedly bad smell about them.

hehe Thanks , Actualy there was a harsh harsh debate over here a little while ago and actualy if one looks closely then can see it that people fight in favor of Hair saying "He is not against the law " . I feel sorry for them . Well and truly . Actualy they have stopped quoting me because even before the third test between England and Pakistan was started , I said in almost the same words " That I reject the outcome of the game because Hair won't have good effeect on the series " .
Hair is the problem , Was the problem and may be will be the problem ..... Cricket is well and truly better witout him !

 

[vic_orthdox]

Pressing charges with no evidence to back it up, esp. charges that hurt the sentiments of an entire cricket playing nation.... These are enough grounds to get rid of an umpire, me thinks.

So you'd fire every detective who arrests a man for rape, and the man gets off?

Because that man has to live with the term "rapist" on his forehead for the rest of his life.

 

[Fusion]

So you'd fire every detective who arrests a man for rape, and the man gets off?

Because that man has to live with the term "rapist" on his forehead for the rest of his life.

If a policeman made arrests based on assumptions and the flimsiest of gueses, even the Police Department would review his actions and probably take action against him. In every segment of civilized society where one has power, that person is accountable to someone for how he/she uses that power.

 

[FRAZ]

In every segment of civilized society where one has power, that person is accountable to someone for how he/she uses that power.

Excellent Fusion!!!!

 

[Burgey]

In every segment of civilized society where one has power, that person is accountable to someone for how he/she uses that power.

Really? How accountable are appellate court judges? How accountable are many heads of government? How accountable are many public servants? Or corrupt police/ officials around the world?

Comparing the powers of a cricket umpire to those of police, who can detain citizens and deprive them of their liberty, is pure folly.

This is being blown way out of proportion by many people. If you consider it a sleight against an entire nation because an umpire docks your team 5 runs and changes the ball, then that's sad. I'd have thought there was more to one's national identity than an incident in a cricket match, but I can't speak for everyone.

I suppose as Australians we should take a stance that because you are saying Hair is a racist and he's biased, you are causing an affront to our entire nation and are in effect saying that we all are? That, with respect is absurd.

It's done. Get over it. Inzi was cleared of ball-tampering but guilty of bringing the game into disrepute. We can rabbit on about the subtleties of burdens of proof and evidence presented all we like, but please, no more of these purported comparisions.

As for the continued assertion that he had "no evidence", for the 654th time, there WAS evidence - him, Doctrove (who gets off scott-free for some utterly bizarre reason) and the ball. The fact that the evidence didn't sustain the allegation doesn't meant there was no evidence. If Madugalle had said "There was never any evidence to warrant bringing this charge" then you would be right and I would agree with you. But he didn't, you aren't and I don't.

In all of the moanings and groanings about the supposed great injustice, conveniently no one mentions the crucial finding - that the marks were equally consistent with both tampering and normal wear and tear. Something being equally consistent with something else does not equal an absence of evidence, it just means that there wasn't sufficient evidence to find the allegation proven. So case dismissed, and rightly so.

Disciplinary hearings in sport are run, won and lost every day around the world. Do you want a scenario where every time an a player in sport gets acquitted the umpire/ referee who reports that player gets fined or banned from the sport? That's the end of organised sport.

And by the way, if you think Pakistan were justified in staying off the field, you are condoning an extremely dangerous precedent. There were avenues open to them to dispute the call after the game. If Inzi didn't know about those avenues he ought not be captaining his country.

 

[honestbharani]

Really? How accountable are appellate court judges? How accountable are many heads of government? How accountable are many public servants? Or corrupt police/ officials around the world?

Comparing the powers of a cricket umpire to those of police, who can detain citizens and deprive them of their liberty, is pure folly.

This is being blown way out of proportion by many people. If you consider it a sleight against an entire nation because an umpire docks your team 5 runs and changes the ball, then that's sad. I'd have thought there was more to one's national identity than an incident in a cricket match, but I can't speak for everyone.

I suppose as Australians we should take a stance that because you are saying Hair is a racist and he's biased, you are causing an affront to our entire nation and are in effect saying that we all are? That, with respect is absurd.

It's done. Get over it. Inzi was cleared of ball-tampering but guilty of bringing the game into disrepute. We can rabbit on about the subtleties of burdens of proof and evidence presented all we like, but please, no more of these purported comparisions.

As for the continued assertion that he had "no evidence", for the 654th time, there WAS evidence - him, Doctrove (who gets off scott-free for some utterly bizarre reason) and the ball. The fact that the evidence didn't sustain the allegation doesn't meant there was no evidence. If Madugalle had said "There was never any evidence to warrant bringing this charge" then you would be right and I would agree with you. But he didn't, you aren't and I don't.

In all of the moanings and groanings about the supposed great injustice, conveniently no one mentions the crucial finding - that the marks were equally consistent with both tampering and normal wear and tear. Something being equally consistent with something else does not equal an absence of evidence, it just means that there wasn't sufficient evidence to find the allegation proven. So case dismissed, and rightly so.

Disciplinary hearings in sport are run, won and lost every day around the world. Do you want a scenario where every time an a player in sport gets acquitted the umpire/ referee who reports that player gets fined or banned from the sport? That's the end of organised sport.

And by the way, if you think Pakistan were justified in staying off the field, you are condoning an extremely dangerous precedent. There were avenues open to them to dispute the call after the game. If Inzi didn't know about those avenues he ought not be captaining his country.

I never said Pakistan were justified in staying off the field. But Hair showed by acting the way he did (in haste and with a lack of common sense) that he is simply not good enough to be an elite umpire. I guess he can be given a second chance but this isn't the first time he is creating problems either. HE has not changed his officious and egoistical ways so far and I don't think he will change it henceforth either. Cricket is definitely better off without such guys.

 

[andyc]

Overall this whole situation was quite necessary too because it is an indication that no more "Hairs are needed in the world of cricket" .

Looks like Shane Warne didn't get the message

 

[Burgey]

Looks like Shane Warne didn't get the message

Gold Andy. Gold.

 

[FRAZ]

Looks like Shane Warne didn't get the message

Cant be true even in the metaphorical or lets say joke sense . What is the plural of Hair by the way ?

 

[Krishna_j]

what has been the general reaction in Australia towards Darrel Hair - is he seen as doing his bit for cricket and likewise.....

 

[Dydl]

Personally, as I wasn't watching the match or particularly interested in the series, I can't really pass judgement on the matter, but Australia in general, I think, are probably split up. There are those who support Darrel Hair, while there are those who don't.

No doubt many people would have different opinions on the matter had the circumstances been different; different teams, more coverage etc.

 

[andmark]

he shouldnt be banned it was his choice