Shootout in Lahore

[Shaggy Alfresco]

I talk to a lot of Pakistani men, mainly youngsters in my travels across the world. One comes across them and since we all lokk the same and speak the same language you always start talking and speaking in one's mother tongue in a foregin land always brings a sense of warmth and intimacy. I have invariably observed the following.

1. There is a very strong desire to convince me that all Pakistanis (or a majority anyway) are peace loving.
2. There is a denial of the presence of any major terrorist network in Pakistan.
3. In a very large number of cases there is a feeling or conviction that 9/11 was a conspiracy hatched in US.
4. If the talk ever veers around to terrorism across the world, there is an inclination to talk of the injustices in Paletine, Kashmir, Bosnia etc etc.

I am saying this not to paint streotypes my friend as you will soon see.

I understand how it feels to have the perspective that the whole world is looking at you with 'jaundiced' eyes. I am a Sikh and used to wear a turban at the time of the Punjab terrorism in India. I have seen the same look in the eyes of my countrymen towards Sikhs. I have seen Sikhs react in exactly the same way, talking of conspiracy theories and the injustices against Sikhs by the Congress and the Jan Sangh and so on. I know exactly how it feels and how we tend to react.

But that doesn't get us anywhere.

The Sikhs in Punjab had to decide that enough was enough. That the Sikh terrorists (and thats exactly what they were) were doing more harm to the Sikh community than could be imagined. That unless checked this could have long term consequences and the Sikh community, one of the most prosperous in India would lose all they had earned with their sweat and toil if this went on.

So the Sikhs of Punjab started co-operating with the police much more proactively, putting their lives at risk at the hands of the terrorists (and I admit at the hands of the police at times) but eventually Punjab waas rid of the problem. WE got back, nay earned back the respect of our countrymen which was always rightfully ours but had been denied for a decade due to the misdeeds of some of our co-religionists.

Were we, the normal law abiding Sikhs unfairly targetted? Maybe. But we were indirectly complicit to the extent that so many of us went into a reflex denial mode.

Pakistan needs to , colectively decide to fight this menace. Forget the hurt, stereotyping of Muslims by the world causes. Its a small hurt. The bigger problem lies elsewhere.

SJS, I agree with what you say here but I think the bigger change in attitude has to come from the Pakistani military. Since 2001, US$10bn was given to the Pakistani military in aid, and it was spent on preparing for a tank battle on the Punjab plains. The will for a long-term war against the Taliban simply isn't there in the Pakistani military, the army is happy to agree to truces and the ISI cooperates with the Taliban in several cases. The Army leadership's myopia convinces themselves that the Americans will withdraw in 10 years or so and they can go back to using Islamic radicals as a tool against India.

 

[Uppercut]

Pakistan's cricket team are saying the only reason they missed the attack was because they left the hotel five minutes after Sri Lanka did.

 

[Evermind]

I thought it was obvious to the whole world that the Pak government was being completely disingenuous with the whole unctuous "war on terror". Nobody in Pakistan has the will to really "fight" the terrorists, mostly because they are scattered among their own people. Did anyone honestly expect the military to fight the very same people they had been helping for decades, and with whom they share an ideology and purpose at times?

 

[silentstriker]

Boy, was I completely and utterly wrong about this. It didn't make sense to me why anyone would simply piss away any public support they had by doing this to cricketers. I haven't read the thread, but I hope someone called out people like me - fully deserved. CA and other boards who did not tour are completely vindicated.

My sympathies go out to the families of the policemen who died, as well as any cricketers that were injured.

 

[pasag]

hb - http://www.cricketweb.net/forum/1846791-post253.html

 

[duffer]

want to express my sympathies to the Sri Lankan team, the Sri Lankan cricket community and to the good people of Pakistan who have had this happen in their own backyard.

To target a foreign sporting team for this kind of violence has to be as low as you can get. I hope that these cretans are not caught by the police, but rather by an angry local mob (four ropes and four motorbikes should do the job).

I am also glad after trawling thru this thread that no-one has got nasty against Pakistanis, because as I see it long term they will be the victims of a (international) cricket free society.

My mind lingers to the thoughts of, what if.....the rocket had hit, the bastards got on the bus....etc and I just have to shake it away, think of something else, cause it sucks too much to think those thoughts.

Sport is happiness, fun, entertainment, relief......... this is just wrong. Youd have to be a fair dinkum c***.

I understand your sentiments but they have done far worse than this.

 

[Matt79]

Boy, was I completely and utterly wrong about this. It didn't make sense to me why anyone would simply piss away any public support they had by doing this to cricketers. I haven't read the thread, but I hope someone called out people like me - fully deserved. CA and other boards who did not tour are completely vindicated.

My sympathies go out to the families of the policemen who died, as well as any cricketers that were injured.

People who did this don't care about public support - they figure people who are into cricket, open to contact with other cultures etc, are corrupt and justifiable targets. They're interested in provoking a full scale war. They think this will actually unify the righteous and that they'll win. More to the point, they don't really care about the results on Earth, they believe they will receive their reward when they come before their god.

More to the point, they're so alienated from the mainstream culture that they probably cannot accurately assess what public reaction will be - they probably to a degree believe that actions like this will make people see the errors of their way and change their politics.

 

[GIMH]

Just watched the news on my lunch and David Morgan pretty much said there will be no cricket in Pakistan until there is a regime change, forget about the WC unless there is drastic change etc.

Obviously it's what we all expected but I never actually expected the ICC to come out and say it.

It's a shame for sure but obviously there are more pressing matters than cricket in Pakistan right now.

 

[honestbharani]

And back on topic, yeah the policemen are the real heroes. Need to find something in my avatar in their honour.


And this is not because I want attention.. But because it is my ****ing avatar and I put what I feel like and right now I feel like honouring those guys who gave their lives away to protect fellow normal human beings just because they happened to be cricketers... And I will do the honouring no matter how small and trivial it is at the larger picture...

 

[Richard]

People who did this don't care about public support - they figure people who are into cricket, open to contact with other cultures etc, are corrupt and justifiable targets. They're interested in provoking a full scale war. They think this will actually unify the righteous and that they'll win. More to the point, they don't really care about the results on Earth, they believe they will receive their reward when they come before their god.

It's truly awful when religion, which for the most part is such a fine thing which generally enriches the lives of those who follow it, corrupts people to such terrible degrees.

 

[social]

Was watching BBC World earlier and they reported that the fourth official was seriously injured (shot in the groin) and that the ICC may be responsible for damages claim as they ultimately gave the tour the all clear and, in particular, were responsible for the attendance of their officials

When interviewed, Brian Murgatroyd of the ICC gave the standard sidestep to all questions of potential liability

 

[Perm]

**** happens.

That's life.

 

[Matt79]

It's truly awful when religion, which for the most part is such a fine thing which generally enriches the lives of those who follow it, corrupts people to such terrible degrees.

In general terms, that's kinda putting the cart before the horse. People become severely alienated, desperate and or angry at the world, and religion then provides them with a direction and place to belong. Unfortunately, although in the majority of times when religion provides someone with such a direction in a positive way, there is a percentage of the time when it will be an anti-social agenda that is adopted.

But if you go to a normal, happy, well-adjusted person, even if they belief strongly in a religion, and say, "God demands that you kill those who have offended him", they're probably not going to go strap on a suicide bomb. They have to be pretty marginalised in their own lives before such desperate measures begin to seem rational.

 

[Uppercut]

It's truly awful when religion, which for the most part is such a fine thing which generally enriches the lives of those who follow it, corrupts people to such terrible degrees.

In general terms, that's kinda putting the cart before the horse. People become severely alienated, desperate and or angry at the world, and religion then provides them with a direction and place to belong. Unfortunately, although in the majority of times when religion provides someone with such a direction in a positive way, there is a percentage of the time when it will be an anti-social agenda that is adopted.

But if you go to a normal, happy, well-adjusted person, even if they belief strongly in a religion, and say, "God demands that you kill those who have offended him", they're probably not going to go strap on a suicide bomb. They have to be pretty marginalised in their own lives before such desperate measures begin to seem rational.

Ooo, maaaajor can of worms being opened up here. You were the one complaining when the thread was derailed into a discussion on tasteless jokes!

 

[Richard]

In general terms, that's kinda putting the cart before the horse. People become severely alienated, desperate and or angry at the world, and religion then provides them with a direction and place to belong. Unfortunately, although in the majority of times when religion provides someone with such a direction in a positive way, there is a percentage of the time when it will be an anti-social agenda that is adopted.

But if you go to a normal, happy, well-adjusted person, even if they belief strongly in a religion, and say, "God demands that you kill those who have offended him", they're probably not going to go strap on a suicide bomb. They have to be pretty marginalised in their own lives before such desperate measures begin to seem rational.

That's very true, of course - if it weren't religion corrupting them it'd only be likely to be something else.

The point, though, is that it's just sad when such a generally good thing is turned so evil.

 

[Matt79]

Agreed - tragic.

Sorry Uppercut et al. I suppose just as some revert to humour to try and make sense of tragic events, some others of us (perhaps reverting back to their academic studies in politics/history) revert to trying to analyse the whys etc. Probably a discussion for a later time.

 

[Majin]

Just caught this on the news now, pretty appalled about the whole thing obv but happy that none of the players are severely injured or anything. Hope we get to find out more about Samaraweera soon, hopefully his injury won't be bad enough to keep him out of the team any.

Very sad day for all parties involved, due respect given to those who were killed.

 

[biased indian]

indian home minster have just suggested on TV that he might ask BCCI to re schedule the IPL: as it clash with the General election date and it might be difficult to provide security for both at the same time

IPL might be the first casualty of this attack

 

[Fusion]

Weren't you one of the one who said it's understandable Aus didn't want to travel there? As others have said, it's too soon especially as people have died, but it does vindicate Australia's decision though and the guys who called them cowards and rubbished the Australian government's advice to them probably should have a good look at themselves.

I said it was understandable for them not to tour, but I disagreed with their decision. I was wrong. Australia and every other team was right not to tour. Their security experts clearly knew what they were talking about.

 

[nightprowler10]

Thank goodness the Sri Lankan cricketers are alright and glad to see they've been flown home to their families as soon as possible. As for the people who died in the attack, may they rest in peace. My thoughts are with their families.

I have to say my spirits have been broken today. I went to check out the score at work and was devastated to see what had ensued. You try and live in denial about these things. Not because you don't care, but because you feel rather helpless about the whole situation, especially when you live halfway around the world watching your homeland burning. But then something like this happens to one of the greatest passions in your life and to people who were brave enough to give us a chance to prove the world wrong and it all comes back and hits you hard, real hard. When I saw the news I had to step away in to an empty room so I could punch the walls. Something like this gives the world a chance to say 'told you so' ever so quietly. Doesn't matter though, I feel like a broken man today. My only hope is that all Pakistanis feel the way I do and do something productive with this anger. Anyway, sorry for making this personal.