Shivnarine Chanderpaul vs Peter May

[kyear2]

The point is to win though

 

[ataraxia]

The point is to win though

Win = 1
Draw = 0.5
Loss = 0

Simplez

 

[Slifer]

Source?

Also, some of those batters were just not quality. What was the point of him shielding them?

Lara carried a much higher burden batting wise than anyone and as a result had far far less not outs than Shiv. So batting quality had nothing to do with why Shiv didn't shield lesser batsmen; he wanted to preserve his record.

 

[Coronis]

Lara carried a much higher burden batting wise than anyone and as a result had far far less not outs than Shiv. So batting quality had nothing to do with why Shiv didn't shield lesser batsmen; he wanted to preserve his record.

Did he though?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Source?

Also, some of those batters were just not quality. What was the point of him shielding them?

You could easily make the case that if Chanderpaul batted at number 3, and faced the tougher conditions consistently and merely averaged say 44-45, it could've had a better impact for the side because the weaker batsmen would be coming in with a better platform and an older ball. Could've nipped some collapses in the bud if Shiv had been there to steady the ship higher up the order. He was usually coming in in the middle of an ongoing collapse which is hard to stop when surrounded by rubbish batsmen.

Did he though?

He did. It says a lot that even West Indian posters admit this about one of their best batsmen. It was obvious to anyone who watched him bat during his career.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Shiv loved playing possum...like when our team was collapsing left, right, and center against the mighty Aussies at Bourda....guess what he did? He said **** it and blasted the 3rd-fastest ton in test cricket at that time.

 

[Coronis]

He did. It says a lot that even West Indian posters admit this about one of their best batsmen. It was obvious to anyone who watched him bat during his career.

I meant specifically did he have a higher burden than Shiv.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Enough about Shiv...can we find any flaws with the other guy in this comparison?

 

[Slifer]

Did he though?

Lara did. Lara scored a higher proportion of his team's runs than any other batsman apart from Headley and The Don.

 

[Line and Length]

Enough about Shiv...can we find any flaws with the other guy in this comparison?

May had two shocking tours - South Africa in 56/57 and Windies 59/60. He averaged under 20 in both series.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

May had two shocking tours - South Africa in 56/57 and Windies 59/60. He averaged under 20 in both series.

This is good to know…very informative.

 

[BazBall21]

Runs-per-wicket in Peter May's tests were almost uniquely low for a post-war batsman. While these stats are far from perfect for measuring the kind of conditions individual batsmen faced, when someone has an extremely low RPW, it would suggest they did have tough batting conditions. May's adjusted away average is 41.73. Overall is well above 50.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

You could easily make the case that if Chanderpaul batted at number 3, and faced the tougher conditions consistently and merely averaged say 44-45, it could've had a better impact for the side because the weaker batsmen would be coming in with a better platform and an older ball. Could've nipped some collapses in the bud if Shiv had been there to steady the ship higher up the order. He was usually coming in in the middle of an ongoing collapse which is hard to stop when surrounded by rubbish batsmen.

He did. It says a lot that even West Indian posters admit this about one of their best batsmen. It was obvious to anyone who watched him bat during his career.

If he would've batted up the order and helped the team, that would've been great. But he chose not to and that's OK. May be he was more comfortable against the older ball and could maximise on his batting at 5? Why do we expect him to simply sacrifice his career when others around him aren't committed enough, WI board is doing silly stuff and players not getting paid enough money. Let's assume he was playing only for his legacy, wouldn't that indirectly benefit WI in tests anyways? He was scoring runs and others weren't. Was he selfish? Probably, or may be he was self-aware and knew he didn't have it in him to bat up the order. Even if he is selfish, I don't see anything wrong looking at the context.

 

[ataraxia]

Runs-per-wicket in Peter May's tests were almost uniquely low for a post-war batsman.

That's just because he was so bad tbf.

 

[Coronis]

Runs-per-wicket in Peter May's tests were almost uniquely low for a post-war batsman. While these stats are far from perfect for measuring the kind of conditions individual batsmen faced, when someone has an extremely low RPW, it would suggest they did have tough batting conditions. May's adjusted away average is 41.73. Overall is well above 50.

I’m sure Andy Flower’s are low too.

 

[BazBall21]

I’m sure Andy Flower’s are low too.

I agree that team strength and team oppositional strength has some effect so you've got to be careful and contextual with the numbers. But when a player's tests produce horrendously low RPW figures, it's very likely they copped pretty tough batting conditions.

 

[BazBall21]

The Compton home bully shouts are fairer. May's adjusted away average is four runs better (above the 40 barrier) and they played for the same team in a similar era so that comparison is likely to be reliable. Denis doesn't match May's plethora of hundreds in low-scoring tests in England too. Average in tests with a below-average RPW:

Peter May 42.68

Denis Compton 34.47

Decent gap. 79% of May's tests registered a below-average RPW. 54% for Compton.

 

[Coronis]

The Compton home bully shouts are fairer. May's adjusted away average is four runs better (above the 40 barrier) and they played for the same team in a similar era so that comparison is likely to be reliable. Denis doesn't match May's plethora of hundreds in low-scoring tests in England too. Average in tests with a below-average RPW:

Peter May 42.68

Denis Compton 34.47

Decent gap. 79% of May's tests registered a below-average RPW. 54% for Compton.

This stat might be useful in a direct head to head comparison of players who played alongside each other e.g May/Compton but its ultimately not when comparing batsmen across different eras e.g May/Chanders - which is what this thread is about.

Even so batting is more than just about making runs in difficult conditions. One might even argue that making runs in better conditions is more valuable and more likely to contribute to your team winning.

Even in the May/Compton comparison… (let it be known I’m not that big a Compton fan and think he’s overrated) in matches they played together:

Compton: 2068 @ 47 (58 home, 35 away) - in wins - 1001 @ 50.05 (58 home, 40 away)
May: 2007 @ 40.95 (52 home, 31 away) - in wins - 771 @ 32.12 (40 home, 23 away)

Lets not pretend May (57 home, 36 away) was any less of a HTB than Compton (60 home, 37 away) either.

 

[BazBall21]

This stat might be useful in a direct head to head comparison of players who played alongside each other e.g May/Compton but its ultimately not when comparing batsmen across different eras e.g May/Chanders - which is what this thread is about.

Even so batting is more than just about making runs in difficult conditions. One might even argue that making runs in better conditions is more valuable and more likely to contribute to your team winning.

Even in the May/Compton comparison… (let it be known I’m not that big a Compton fan and think he’s overrated) in matches they played together:

Compton: 2068 @ 47 (58 home, 35 away) - in wins - 1001 @ 50.05 (58 home, 40 away)
May: 2007 @ 40.95 (52 home, 31 away) - in wins - 771 @ 32.12 (40 home, 23 away)

Yeah in terms of the Chanderpaul comparison, I was only saying I think May was a bit better overseas than his away average suggests.

I think May has a slightly better resume than Compton, but that comparison is complicated by the War. Don't mind either answer.