Shastri Vs Hussain, Shastri has lost it

[Zinzan]

I must admit that all I've been able to do throughout the last few weeks is rage jealously at India's vast cricketing riches

I'm especially jealous of their fast bowling resources

 

[honestbharani]

lol.. India lose a series and zinzan is posting again.. missed u during the WC mate..

 

[GIMH]

I'm sure his absence during the WC had nothing to do with the earthquakes in NZ

 

[smash84]

wonder what Ravi must be feeling now about his comments especially if India go down 4-0 (which seems probable)

 

[Smudge]

I'm sure his absence during the WC had nothing to do with the earthquakes in NZ

Nah, despite the fact the earthquake made him homeless, he should have been posting on here instead. Priorities, FFS.

 

[honestbharani]

I'm sure his absence during the WC had nothing to do with the earthquakes in NZ

Nah, despite the fact the earthquake made him homeless, he should have been posting on here instead. Priorities, FFS.

I am sorry.. I genuinely didn't know he was impacted by that. Hopefully things are fine, as they seem to be, as he is posting again which he won't if he had more pressing issues to attend to..



Doesn't change the fact that he has been a condescending poster about Indian cricket for a while now..

 

[Zinzan]

I am sorry.. I genuinely didn't know he was impacted by that. Hopefully things are fine, as they seem to be, as he is posting again which he won't if he had more pressing issues to attend to..



Doesn't change the fact that he has been a condescending poster about Indian cricket for a while now..

Condescending poster? The fact that I stated on many occasions that I didn't think they were 'clearly' no.1 & that they wouldn't last long at the top due to their ordinary bowling attack doesn't equate to being condescending, especially as it turns out I was right all along.

If you've paid particularly good attention to my posts you'll notice I never bagged their ODI side, because they have had an excellent ODI side & deserve to be world champions, it's just I've never been convinced with their test side & even suggested If they remain no 1 for any great length of time (with that side) it would suggest world cricket is sensationally weak. Fortunately England showed what a 'real' top balanced test side looks like, and what an absolutely hiding it's been. (incidentally the last sentence is fact & not condescension, it has actually been a hiding, look it up)

 

[honestbharani]

Condescending poster? The fact that I stated on many occasions that I didn't think they were 'clearly' no.1 & that they wouldn't last long at the top due to their ordinary bowling attack doesn't equate to being condescending, especially as it turns out I was right all along.

If you've paid particularly good attention to my posts you'll notice I never bagged their ODI side, because they have had an excellent ODI side & deserve to be world champions, it's just I've never been convinced with their test side & even suggested If they remain no 1 for any great length of time (with that side) it would suggest world cricket is sensationally weak. Fortunately England showed what a 'real' top balanced test side looks like, and what an absolutely hiding it's been. (incidentally the last sentence is fact & not condescension, it has actually been a hiding, look it up)

lol... I rest my case.

 

[Zinzan]

 

[honestbharani]

Its all good though bud.. I figured instead of being sad at losing being #1, I will just enjoy the fact that we stayed there so long with the sort of bowling we had.... We kept getting away by doing just enough to stay there but obviously, the quality of the English bowlling esp. was just bound to catch up with us.. I hope England do a better job of keeping this lot fit and don't relapse to what happened post Ashes 2005...



BTW, do people think that attack was still better than this one?

 

[GIMH]

I don't...think there's a thread on it in this subforum hb (comparing the whole teams)

 

[honestbharani]

I don't...think there's a thread on it in this subforum hb (comparing the whole teams)

oh ok. Not been a big contributor or reader of this subforum ever since it got created.. BTW, love your location.. As among the ones who was previously there, I can tell you the feeling is awesome Live it up!!

 

[smash84]

oh ok. Not been a big contributor or reader of this subforum ever since it got created.. BTW, love your location.. As among the ones who was previously there, I can tell you the feeling is awesome Live it up!!

Hmmm........I see a lot of smileys in this post for a person who calls for infractions on excessive use of smileys

 

[G.I.Joe]

GIMH lives in piss?

 

[honestbharani]

Hmmm........I see a lot of smileys in this post for a person who calls for infractions on excessive use of smileys

imitation is the highest form of flattery etc. etc.

 

[SJS]

Nasser Hussain is spot on to say that he is paid by ESPN/Star to voice his opinion. In fact it is such an obvious fact that even my repeating it here sounds so unnecessary to myself yet that is not what India's top commentators (all the, both the, two of that pair) have ever thought in their careers behind the mike.

They have made a virtue and a highly paying career out of speaking as one is used to hearing the spokespersons of India's leading political parties do. Defending the indefensible is not an easy job to do one would think but to do it day in and day out really must take some talent but no. All it takes is a thick hide, a feeling that if you pretend that you are speaking at a rally at the red fort with the tricolour flying above and a billion plus cheering from the maidans, you can convince yourself of any nonsense. Then it comes so easy - whether it be carrying on about Harbhajan's great spin bowling, Dhoni's fabulous glove work, Yuvraj's amazing once in a generation talent, IPL's benefits for Indian cricket and no issues about its scheduling and on and on and on.

The fact that Shastri is the best of the Indian commentators (the ones one sees and hears most often) doesn't say anything except offer a poor commentary on the quality of Indian commentators all round. Its amazing how Gavaskar and Shastri (with ba-lamb Bhogle hanging on to their tail desperately) will jump out of their seats the moment a Nasser Hussain, a Wilkins, a david Lloyd even hints at the fallibility of any of our sacred cows.

There was a beautiful piece by one of the few top notch Indian cricket writers, Pradeep Magazine about these guys recently. Must fetch it out to share here.

PS : By the way, Magazine said what every Indian cricket fan should say and with a pride we have never deserved in this matter before - the best Indian commentator by a million miles is not Shastri, not Bhogale, not Gavaskar and not Siddhu but the Prince of calcutta. What a breath of fresh air finally in the commentary box. Now if oly we could get rid of the over paid have beens.

 

[SJS]

Here it is.

Before TV began to beam matches live into our drawing rooms, radio was the all-powerful medium that created images of a cricket match in the mind’s eye. My growing-up years were spent marvelling at the mesmeric qualities of John Arlott, who kept me glued to my transistor in following the fortunes of India—an average side with no pretensions of being an economic power—in the “fairytale” land of England.

Arlott’s “country burr” and lyrical prose on BBC Radio’s Test match special resonates in my ears even today when I think of India’s famous 1971 Oval win, or the double century the great Sunil Gavaskar scored at the same venue in 1979 that instilled pride in a nation then considered good for nothing. His tone may have been condescending but the praise was genuine and generous. Cricket was still to become a consumer product and India was not a brand yet.

In jarring contrast was the verbose Ravi Chaturvedi who drowned himself in sentimentality and broke down on the radio when India chased the then world record score of 403 in the Trinidad Test of the 1976-77 series. His words, “Yeh Nehru ka desh, Gandhi ka desh”, while describing India’s win on All India Radio did not sound jingoistic then, considering it was a moment to cherish in India’s long history of defeat and gloom. Unfortunately, the sentiments underlying Chaturvedi’s remarks, even then considered an aberration, have only magnified since.

Indeed, our past cricketing greats-turned-TV commentators seem to believe their job is not to add their nuanced understanding to the images of games we watch, but to voice their prejudices, jingoism and ultra-nationalism. Much as we all admire Sunil Gavaskar for his batting exploits, I hate to say, I find his comments on the game exasperating at times. Had a lesser known name mouthed similar, generic lines, his remarks would have been branded inane, even puerile. What is galling is that instead of objectively reporting and passing on his immense knowledge on technique and strategy, he routinely indulges in “gora-bashing”. Ravi Shastri, whose smug voice gives the impression that he and he alone knows what the game is all about, has his strong points, but most of the time he is guilty of flag-waving and projecting the Indian cricket team as a consumer brand without any blemish.

The Lord’s Test, which India lost, had a couple of terrible umpiring decisions which went against England at a very crucial stage of the final day. The HawkEye—which unfortunately India refuses to accept, thereby keeping lbws away from the purview of the drs—exposed the glaring umpiring errors but our great duo hypocritically kept mum, not delving on it beyond a passing mention. That is ideally how it should be, players and commentators should accept such errors as part of the game. But that’s not what Gavaskar and Shastri do when similar decisions go against India.

The famous Harsha Bhogle, who seems to suffer from verbal diarrhoea, may not be the agent provocateur but he very subtly turns the debate in the desired direction. Time and again, the trio has dissected even iffy and marginal umpiring errors that have gone against India, fuelling an angry reaction in India.

What Harold Larwood’s Bodyline attack could not achieve—severing of diplomatic ties between England and Australia—messrs Bhogle, Gavaskar and Shastri almost managed when India were in Australia last. Steve Bucknor’s admittedly poor decisions and the Harbhajan Singh-Andrew Symonds row were portrayed live on TV as if they were deliberate incidents meant to undermine the rise of India by the “racist” White world.

This England-India series is a very important Test encounter and one wishes more voices like Nasser Hussain, David Lloyd and Sourav Ganguly would illumine our understanding of the duel. In fact, Ganguly has all the makings of a sharp, incisive critic of the game, though he needs to be more fluent and witty, qualities that make Hussain a listener’s delight.

Commentating on the 2005-06 series, the former England captain and now a respected voice on British television, Mike Atherton, had made this stunning revelation when he was in India: “Local commentators are asked not to mention sensitive subjects or controversial selection issues, no matter how germane they might be to the action...and with compliant commentators on board, they (the audience) will hear only what the bcci want them to hear.”

As a cricket fan, we need neutral voices, even a British perspective on the action in the middle, and not commentators masquerading as PR agents of the Indian board.​

 

[honestbharani]

Here it is.

Before TV began to beam matches live into our drawing rooms, radio was the all-powerful medium that created images of a cricket match in the mind’s eye. My growing-up years were spent marvelling at the mesmeric qualities of John Arlott, who kept me glued to my transistor in following the fortunes of India—an average side with no pretensions of being an economic power—in the “fairytale” land of England.

Arlott’s “country burr” and lyrical prose on BBC Radio’s Test match special resonates in my ears even today when I think of India’s famous 1971 Oval win, or the double century the great Sunil Gavaskar scored at the same venue in 1979 that instilled pride in a nation then considered good for nothing. His tone may have been condescending but the praise was genuine and generous. Cricket was still to become a consumer product and India was not a brand yet.

In jarring contrast was the verbose Ravi Chaturvedi who drowned himself in sentimentality and broke down on the radio when India chased the then world record score of 403 in the Trinidad Test of the 1976-77 series. His words, “Yeh Nehru ka desh, Gandhi ka desh”, while describing India’s win on All India Radio did not sound jingoistic then, considering it was a moment to cherish in India’s long history of defeat and gloom. Unfortunately, the sentiments underlying Chaturvedi’s remarks, even then considered an aberration, have only magnified since.

Indeed, our past cricketing greats-turned-TV commentators seem to believe their job is not to add their nuanced understanding to the images of games we watch, but to voice their prejudices, jingoism and ultra-nationalism. Much as we all admire Sunil Gavaskar for his batting exploits, I hate to say, I find his comments on the game exasperating at times. Had a lesser known name mouthed similar, generic lines, his remarks would have been branded inane, even puerile. What is galling is that instead of objectively reporting and passing on his immense knowledge on technique and strategy, he routinely indulges in “gora-bashing”. Ravi Shastri, whose smug voice gives the impression that he and he alone knows what the game is all about, has his strong points, but most of the time he is guilty of flag-waving and projecting the Indian cricket team as a consumer brand without any blemish.

The Lord’s Test, which India lost, had a couple of terrible umpiring decisions which went against England at a very crucial stage of the final day. The HawkEye—which unfortunately India refuses to accept, thereby keeping lbws away from the purview of the drs—exposed the glaring umpiring errors but our great duo hypocritically kept mum, not delving on it beyond a passing mention. That is ideally how it should be, players and commentators should accept such errors as part of the game. But that’s not what Gavaskar and Shastri do when similar decisions go against India.

The famous Harsha Bhogle, who seems to suffer from verbal diarrhoea, may not be the agent provocateur but he very subtly turns the debate in the desired direction. Time and again, the trio has dissected even iffy and marginal umpiring errors that have gone against India, fuelling an angry reaction in India.

What Harold Larwood’s Bodyline attack could not achieve—severing of diplomatic ties between England and Australia—messrs Bhogle, Gavaskar and Shastri almost managed when India were in Australia last. Steve Bucknor’s admittedly poor decisions and the Harbhajan Singh-Andrew Symonds row were portrayed live on TV as if they were deliberate incidents meant to undermine the rise of India by the “racist” White world.

This England-India series is a very important Test encounter and one wishes more voices like Nasser Hussain, David Lloyd and Sourav Ganguly would illumine our understanding of the duel. In fact, Ganguly has all the makings of a sharp, incisive critic of the game, though he needs to be more fluent and witty, qualities that make Hussain a listener’s delight.

Commentating on the 2005-06 series, the former England captain and now a respected voice on British television, Mike Atherton, had made this stunning revelation when he was in India: “Local commentators are asked not to mention sensitive subjects or controversial selection issues, no matter how germane they might be to the action...and with compliant commentators on board, they (the audience) will hear only what the bcci want them to hear.”

As a cricket fan, we need neutral voices, even a British perspective on the action in the middle, and not commentators masquerading as PR agents of the Indian board.
​

To be completely honest, biased commentators are not exclusive to India or the BCCI. What I hate is the fact that even the stupid ones have their independence in places like Australia or South Africa or England but in India, they do not. BCCI is growing bigger than the game itself and it is only a matter of time before something gives.


What exactly stops people from dissecting even basic flaws in people like Sachin or Dhoni, I will never know. How can the fact that Sachin only ever bats at 4 be excused? He refuses to budge even when people are injured... Why can't he bat 3 and put Laxman, who is obviously unsuited to be at 3 in these conditions lower down where he can perhaps make a better impact? Or Dhoni's declining glovework and batting in tests?


I don't mind the IPL. I honestly do not. I think cricket needs to be reasonable and understand where the money is coming from. But surely, the cricketers should not play when they are not fit. And they must surely not be forced to play when not fit. And it is not too much to expect tour games and more time to be spent in the country we are touring. It is not like these things are mutually exclusive. I don't mind us playing an A side in the last few ODIs of any series if it means sending our test side over for practice games and acclilmitisation.

 

[G.I.Joe]

Ganguly is by far the best commentator we've had, agreed.

 

[ankitj]

Ganguly is by far the best commentator we've had, agreed.

And quite surprisingly so. I would've thought he will be an obnoxious commentator, but what a breath of fresh air.