Shane Watson

[chaminda_00]

Watson and Bravo are quite different IMO. Bravo's lower order troubles IMO are more co-incidence than anything else. I'd compare Watson to Kallis. Obviously he's not anywhere near as good at this stage, but they are very similar players.

Kallis did start his career at number 6 around the time of the 96 WC and didn't do a bad job from memory. I think over time when his looked to improve areas of his game, defence inparticular his slowed down a lot. Mind you back in 96 the need to have a slog in the last couple over was less required, most people did the Bevan and worked 1s and 2s.

EDIT: Looks like my memory is pretty bad he started his career at 5, batted at six for a while, but averages a poor 16 from only 5 innings but.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Kallis did start his career at number 6 around the time of the 96 WC and didn't do a bad job from memory. I think over time when his looked to improve areas of his game, defence inparticular his slowed down a lot. Mind you back in 96 the need to have a slog in the last couple over was less required, most people did the Bevan and worked 1s and 2s.

Nah, he's only batted five times at 6, and once each at 7 and 8. The vast majority of his ODI innings are at 3 and 4, with a handful at 5, most of the innings at 5 coming early in his career.

Two of those seven innings at 6 and below were in his debut series though, and he batted at 5 most of the time until after the '96 WC. His average at 6 is 16 btw, but his average at 3, 4 and 5 is good.

edit: Post rendered pointless.

 

[Fiery]

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[FaaipDeOiad]

...............

Rather than "biting your tongue" every time his name is mentioned or posting emoticons, it might be a plausible alternative to discuss him as a cricketer in a mature and reasonable manner?

Either that or just drop it. Your attitude on the subject is a lot more annoying than any actual criticisms you might level at Watson.

 

[Fiery]

ok Faaip. I think my thoughts are well known enough and it just ends up winding up his adoring fans too much so I didn't bother. But if you insist...I don't think he's good enough to play for Australia...he's not a good enough top order batsman to play for Australia, he's not a good enough middle-lower order batsman to play for Australia. He's not a good enough bowler to play for Australia. He's not a good enough allrounder to play for Australia. A bit simplistic I know but that's my opinion

 

[Stumped]

dont think hes the answer, lacking a bit mentaly and the injuries arent helping

 

[social]

ok Faaip. I think my thoughts are well known enough and it just ends up winding up his adoring fans too much so I didn't bother. But if you insist...I don't think he's good enough to play for Australia...he's not a good enough top order batsman to play for Australia, he's not a good enough middle-lower order batsman to play for Australia. He's not a good enough bowler to play for Australia. He's not a good enough allrounder to play for Australia. A bit simplistic I know but that's my opinion

Considering that he was possibly the form all-rounder in the Champions Trophy and he averages over 50 in first class cricket, I think that's overly harsh.

The guy needs an extended run injury-free before one can categorically state whether he's good enough.

 

[Fiery]

Considering that he was possibly the form all-rounder in the Champions Trophy and he averages over 50 in first class cricket, I think that's overly harsh.

The guy needs an extended run injury-free before one can categorically state whether he's good enough.

He averages 49.22 in 1st class cricket. I've told you a million times Social, don't exaggerate

*mutters to self: "must not get drawn into discussions on Shane Watson"*

 

[social]

He averages 49.22 in 1st class cricket. I've told you a million times Social, don't exaggerate

That low???!!! Drop him immediately

 

[Smudge]

Dire effort from him around the boundary at fine leg today. He seemed to be moving like a sloth on valium.

 

[Macka]

Dire effort from him around the boundary at fine leg today. He seemed to be moving like a sloth on valium.

Yeah, he doesn't look fully fit. Seemed to me was trying to cut the ball off by running directly at it, but he realised too late he wasn't going to get there.

In general, though, his bowling looks average, but I think Australia are making a mistake by batting him at 7 in the order. He's not a hitter.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah, he doesn't look fully fit. Seemed to me was trying to cut the ball off by running directly at it, but he realised too late he wasn't going to get there.

In general, though, his bowling looks average, but I think Australia are making a mistake by batting him at 7 in the order. He's not a hitter.

Yep. Hayden's return has complicated things for the selectors imo, if they want to play both Hogg and Watson, which they will given Symonds' injury.

Watson needs time at the top ofthe order - shame he got injured as he was maybe looking like he could do the business up front (not Lee Furlong's front either).

The jury's still out on whether he'll make it, BUT - rarely have the selectors ever wanted a player to succeed as badly as they do him, because if he does develop he'll be a god send - anyone who averages close to 50 in FC cricket and can send 'em down at 140 kph plus has potential.

With the injuries Australia have at the moment, if they are to win the WC, he needs to fire.

EDIT: just on Lee Furlong, is she the sportsman's balck widow or what? Every bloke she's been with has either retired or got injured. If Watson's to peform consistently, he needs to be rid of the curse of Lee Furlong!!!

 

[mavric41]

Does anyone remember that he has played bugger all cricket since he was injured in November? Its pretty hard to reach your peak without time in the middle. Give him some more game time. he wouldn't be playing atm if Symonds was fit.

 

[pup11]

If watson can play one or two seasons of injury free cricket than he can really evolve as top odi all-rounder. He is more in that kallis mould, his batting technique is pretty similar to him[can't compare their class though] and he bowls like him too[minus swing].
He has been around since a long time but never has been able to cement his place in the team due to his injuries.

 

[four_or_six]

I actually really rate Shane Watson. And I enjoy watching him play because he seems like a trier. And because he isn't just some Aussie-brute who seems to have no emotions.

However today he was nowhere near as good as he was back before his last injuries. Something is obviously bothering him. Don't know if it's that he's injured but he's been told he has to play through it or be pulled out of the WC squad, or if it's that he's mentally struggling that he might get injured before the WC which lets face it would be a massive blow for him personally given all that's gone before.

 

[Jono]

I don't think Kallis is very good at adapting to the late overs, when it's required. He's usually set by the time they roll around and does fine, but that's a different scenario. He's probably a little better than Watson, but you wouldn't want to bat him below 5 either.

I reckon you are severely underestimating Kallis' abilities. Kallis can be damn good late in the overs when he wants to, we just very rarely have to see it. Yeah he's no Razzaq, Dhoni or Hussey, but he's a very smart player, something I don't think can be said about Watson.

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Matches/MatchScorecard_ODI.asp?MatchCode=1561

Great example of Jaques coming in late, and going bang. Fair while ago mind you, but I think you're doing him a disservice.

I just don't think anyone can ever call Watson "a class act" in the pyjama game if he can't adapt his batting to bat at the death. That doesn't mean he won't be a good ODI batsman, but his inability to adapt is a major issue regarding his batting. Almost all other top players, at varying levels, can perform whether they bat at 3-4 or 6-7. Yes they are successful to different extents, but Watson just isn't effective at all.

 

[aussie]

Watson has great potential to become a quality all-rounder & i see no reason based on what he has done in international cricket why he can't.

ATM he is clearly out of touch because of the injury that forced him out for so long i.e (his bowling has lacked that nip & he is batting in position that he clearly is not suited to). Before then in Malaysia & the CT he was in such great that many thought he was finally fullfilling his potential. Once he can stay fit for a while he will do well IMO

 

[Goughy]

Watson is a very good player. Most countries in the world would love to have him.

However, I dont understand the Australian obsession with playing him. It seems they are desperately looking for an allrounder.

I want to write them a letter and say "when your specialists are as good as Australia's are and there are plenty of guys that can do bits of the other, then there is no need for an allrounder and therefore no need for Watson"

Look at the other top allrounders in the world
Flintoff- Would make the team as a bowler
Kallis- Would make the team as a batsman
Pollock- Would make the team as a bowler
etc

I honestly dont think Watson is capable of making the team as a specialist and as such his inclusion weakens the team at the expense of a superior single skilled player.

Watson should only be included if the selecters believe that he makes the team purely on batting merit.

 

[Pup Clarke]

Watson is a very good player

.

I don't think you can call him "very good".IMO a very good player is one who consistently puts in performances and dominates a game with bat or ball more times than not eg Flintoff with the ball or Kallis with the bat.I think he has the raw ingredients to turn into a very good one day player if he stays injury free in 2-3 years time.I'm not sure about test cricket though.You really have to be very good with either bat or ball to be an all-rounder by batting at 6.I'm not sure Watson is very good at both these skills but he can develop and put in more consistent performances.

 

[Pup Clarke]

How can you not play an all-rounder? In the absence of Symonds, who will bowl that last ten overs?

I'm not saying I wouldn't play him but I just think that he's not a "very good" all-rounder.Might be quite good in the one day format but I'm not sure about tests.