Shane Watson, you're a star

[Richard]

Also, with regards to Marsh, he had a superb IPL and should definitely be in contention for an openers spot, but is he ready for ODI cricket? I'm not sure how he went in the FR Cup last season

Pretty reasonably without being outstanding.

 

[Jono]

If I was an Australian fan, this is the team I'd want in a do-or-die ODI:

Hayden
Watson
Ponting
Clarke
Symonds
Hussey
Haddin

Hopes is stiff, but I reckon Watson is better, and Marsh's time will come once Hayden goes (or when he's out injured).

You can argue though that Marsh is so clearly in form, that they should capitalise now.

 

[Richard]

Is Hayden in or out of the ODIs currently? If he's out, it'd seem pretty straightforward case of Marsh replaces him, Hopes opens in place of Watson, then the middle-order of Ponting-Clarke-Symonds-Hussey stays the same.

 

[gwo]

Assuming Haydos is out...

Hopes
Watson
Ponting
Clarke
Symonds
Hussey
Haddin

Incumbency pwns.

 

[Jamee999]

Pick him for Australia at number 4 in the ODIs I say.

Haydos the gun, can retire from ODIs, a side like this would be great, especially for Watto.

1 Marsh
2 Clarke
3 Ponting
4 Watson
5 Symonds
6 Haddin [switch with hussey if you like]
7 Hussey

Marsh
Watson
Ponting
Clarke
Symonds
Hussey
Haddin

 

[howardj]

Watson is a good raw talent, but until he can get through a couple of Test series or FC seasons back-to-back, there will always be massive question marks over both his physical and mental ability to handle top-line cricket. Being honest, Twenty20 is hit and giggle cricket at present.

 

[whitedazzler]

*cough* *cough* CRAP!!!!!!!!!

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Watson is a good raw talent, but until he can get through a couple of Test series or FC seasons back-to-back, there will always be massive question marks over both his physical and mental ability to handle top-line cricket. Being honest, Twenty20 is hit and giggle cricket at present.

Maybe so, but in this arena Watson's shown he's permanently ironed out the foibles that were stopping his continued selection - namely, the ability to shun convention while batting and to bowl under pressure without crocking himself. You'd think if anything would expose these, it'd be an extended Twenty20 tourney. Instead, he's survived and thrived.

To me, he's answered fairly emphatically any questions I had about his limitations, given his slogging and death-bowling credentials now. Wouldn't hesitate to pick him in the ODI side; and if his FC skills haven't deteriorated he should be next in line as a Test batsman.

 

[Top_Cat]

Maybe so, but in this arena Watson's shown he's permanently ironed out the foibles that were stopping his continued selection - namely, the ability to shun convention while batting and to bowl under pressure without crocking himself. You'd think if anything would expose these, it'd be an extended Twenty20 tourney. Instead, he's survived and thrived.

To me, he's answered fairly emphatically any questions I had about his limitations, given his slogging and death-bowling credentials now. Wouldn't hesitate to pick him in the ODI side; and if his FC skills haven't deteriorated he should be next in line as a Test batsman.

Need a bit more. Even Munaf Patel got through the tournament without an injury so Watto will need a solid season of FC cricket before he jumps ahead of the Kat, Hodge, D Hussey, etc. for a Test spot in my mind.

As for his bowling, I was always under the impression the big question marks over his bowling were more to do with movement than anything else. I don't recall seeing any hooping swingers from him, personally.

 

[miekk]

Everyone was always bitching about his injuries and calling him soft. I guess all the downtime was worth it, cause boy did he perform in the IPL.

 

[Richard]

Need a bit more. Even Munaf Patel got through the tournament without an injury

Can't understand how anyone can seriously think some Twenty20 crap is the best way to prove fitness. It's utterly undemanding - the thing lasts barely 3 hours FFS, and bowlers bowl a massive 4 overs.

The IPL is basically a working holiday for the planet's best players.

 

[Mister Wright]

Can't understand how anyone can seriously think some Twenty20 crap is the best way to prove fitness. It's utterly undemanding - the thing lasts barely 3 hours FFS, and bowlers bowl a massive 4 overs.

The IPL is basically a working holiday for the planet's best players.

FFS it's a massive step for Watson to prove his fitness. The fact he got through the whole tournament without breaking a nail is a triumph. Honestly, the guy gets injured getting out of bed in the morning. Watson getting through the whole tournament is like a snail climbing Mount Everest.

 

[Somerset]

Can't understand how anyone can seriously think some Twenty20 crap is the best way to prove fitness. It's utterly undemanding - the thing lasts barely 3 hours FFS, and bowlers bowl a massive 4 overs.

The IPL is basically a working holiday for the planet's best players.

Its just a coincidence most players have said that the intensity of a T20 and the energy level required in a T20 match is just as high as that for an ODI? IMO its a pretty good judge of fitness - obviously bowling 30 overs in a test match would be better but to say the concept is undemanding serious undemines the game.

And try telling the players that represented Rajasthan and Chennai in the IPL final that they were out for a holiday.

 

[duffer]

Its just a coincidence most players have said that the intensity of a T20 and the energy level required in a T20 match is just as high as that for an ODI? IMO its a pretty good judge of fitness - obviously bowling 30 overs in a test match would be better but to say the concept is undemanding serious undemines the game.

And try telling the players that represented Rajasthan and Chennai in the IPL final that they were out for a holiday.

I think that's Richard's whole MO tbh.

 

[Top_Cat]

FFS it's a massive step for Watson to prove his fitness. The fact he got through the whole tournament without breaking a nail is a triumph. Honestly, the guy gets injured getting out of bed in the morning. Watson getting through the whole tournament is like a snail climbing Mount Everest.

In all seriousness, I just don't think his body is built for long bowling spells. He appears strongly built and has layers of muscle but without the skeletal structure to support it, well you have his injury record; back stress fractures at 14, 16, 18 and 21, a litany of muscle strains, etc. His action has been dissected and changed a few times and he still gets injured. Bowling at his pace is strenuous enough and I just can't see him having the confidence in his body to forget the possibility of his next injury and bowl well. It must surely play on his mind and I personally would hate it, as would anyone surely.

I think either he needs to back off the speed to be able to bowl long spells or give up on bowling because he's headed for more injuries I reckon. Jason Gillespie had all sorts of trouble with injuries but they were almost always muscular and he grew out of them. Watto's lately are muscular but surely his back will keep giving him trouble.

 

[Top_Cat]

Its just a coincidence most players have said that the intensity of a T20 and the energy level required in a T20 match is just as high as that for an ODI? IMO its a pretty good judge of fitness - obviously bowling 30 overs in a test match would be better but to say the concept is undemanding serious undemines the game.

If you're talking quick bursts of energy, like putting everything into a 4-over spell or the mental strain, then sure it could be analogous to a ODI. And I reckon that's what players are talking about. But in terms of stamina and wear-and-tear, the bare facts render any argument against it as ludicrous; no matter which way you slice it, 10 overs costs your body more than 4.

 

[Mister Wright]

In all seriousness, I just don't think his body is built for long bowling spells. He appears strongly built and has layers of muscle but without the skeletal structure to support it, well you have his injury record; back stress fractures at 14, 16, 18 and 21, a litany of muscle strains, etc. His action has been dissected and changed a few times and he still gets injured. Bowling at his pace is strenuous enough and I just can't see him having the confidence in his body to forget the possibility of his next injury and bowl well. It must surely play on his mind and I personally would hate it, as would anyone surely.

I think either he needs to back off the speed to be able to bowl long spells or give up on bowling because he's headed for more injuries I reckon. Jason Gillespie had all sorts of trouble with injuries but they were almost always muscular and he grew out of them. Watto's lately are muscular but surely his back will keep giving him trouble.

Yeah. Not suited to long spells. Don't see the problem in him being a support bowler bowling 10 overs a day rather than a frontline bowler. His batting is going to more than make up for the less overs he bats.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

If you're talking quick bursts of energy, like putting everything into a 4-over spell or the mental strain, then sure it could be analogous to a ODI. And I reckon that's what players are talking about. But in terms of stamina and wear-and-tear, the bare facts render any argument against it as ludicrous; no matter which way you slice it, 10 overs costs your body more than 4.

But six straight weeks worth of high pressure 4-over spells, to me, proves a lot more than five games' worth of 10 over quotas broken up into 4, 3 and 2 over spells.

It's not so cut-and-dried in that shorter spells equals less stress; the frequency with which he's bowling them (one every few days over a month and a half) and still walking away unscathed is a top effort by his standards. It's not a conclusive fitness test by any means, but it's enough to merit another go in ODIs if you ask me.

 

[Richard]

Its just a coincidence most players have said that the intensity of a T20 and the energy level required in a T20 match is just as high as that for an ODI?

Mental intensity and energy-requirements, maybe. As Corey said, though, physically that's simply an impossibility.

IMO its a pretty good judge of fitness - obviously bowling 30 overs in a test match would be better but to say the concept is undemanding serious undemines the game.

And try telling the players that represented Rajasthan and Chennai in the IPL final that they were out for a holiday.

I said a working holiday - bit different.

 

[Richard]

FFS it's a massive step for Watson to prove his fitness. The fact he got through the whole tournament without breaking a nail is a triumph. Honestly, the guy gets injured getting out of bed in the morning. Watson getting through the whole tournament is like a snail climbing Mount Everest.

He's never played this sort of tournament before, though. He's never failed to get through something like this.

It's stuff he's previously tried and not managed that'll be the key.