Shane Watson, is he unlucky or what?

[howardj]

Maybe there's something wrong with his muscle tissue/dna/genes etc. Who knows? I agree with what Robert Craddock said though - just as players must prove they are up to international cricket on a technical and mental level, they must also show that they are up to it physically. It's close getting to the point where they should stop picking him until he get a full FC season under his belt. And, if he can't, he should shelve bowling. FFS the guy averages 50 with the bat - he could likely make it as a batsman alone.

 

[shortpitched713]

Australia is already saturated with quality one day batsmen. Just ask Brad Hodge.

 

[howardj]

In Tests, I was referring to.

 

[Richard]

I'm sure that McGrath could have bowled at 140km/hr+. Yet he played within his limitations after he started getting injured to much. As did Lillee, Gillespie, Fleming, Hughes, and a host of other great Aussie fast bowlers.

You don't know how fast Lillee and Hughes bowled, they never bowled in front of reliable speedguns.

 

[howardj]

So the saga continues...

I'm not a Watson basher, far from it, but there always seems to be a reason why this guy can't play - especially when he's about to given an extended run.

In India a couple of years ago, he reckons he was having a heart attack and got taken to hospital.

Then, in 2006, when he was set to go overseas, he reckons he tore his hamstring. So he stayed behind in Australia - but subsequent scans revealed nothing.

Honestly, with some people, sickness and injury can be 80% imagined...like they talk themselves into it.

 

[Top_Cat]

Torn heartilage.

 

[howardj]

...pretty much.

I mean, being serious, how could you pick this guy and be confident that he'd get through five long Test match days.

 

[four_or_six]

He should mingle with the rest of the team as much as possible, infect as many of them as possible. He'll be fine by the first test but some of them will be still in the middle of the illness. That way he'll be more likely to play.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Doesn't he have a virus? Would seem silly to play if he does, he wouldn't get anything out of it. If it was a test match, maybe it'd be a different story, but not for a tour game.

It's one thing that bugs me about people discussing Watson's injuries. It's fine to call his physical condition or mental application or whatever into question, but if the guy gets injured I don't really buy the argument that he should "harden up" or whatever. Most of his injuries (stress fractures, muscle tears, dislocated shoulder etc) are pretty tangible and obviously prevent him from playing.

And really, I don't buy the suggestion that he doesn't want to play so he's making up getting injured/sick, even if it was a plausible possibility. Does he seem like someone who doesn't have the motivation to play international cricket? I mean, half the time the guy is getting bashed for showing too much emotion on the field, and now he's being accused of not caring. Honestly.

Watson's not the first player to have long term injury problems, especially not early in his career. I don't recall anyone questioning Bond or Gillespie's dedication to playing the game, so I don't see why anyone should question Watson.

 

[four_or_six]

Doesn't he have a virus? Would seem silly to play if he does, he wouldn't get anything out of it. If it was a test match, maybe it'd be a different story, but not for a tour game.

It's one thing that bugs me about people discussing Watson's injuries. It's fine to call his physical condition or mental application or whatever into question, but if the guy gets injured I don't really buy the argument that he should "harden up" or whatever. Most of his injuries (stress fractures, muscle tears, dislocated shoulder etc) are pretty tangible and obviously prevent him from playing.

And really, I don't buy the suggestion that he doesn't want to play so he's making up getting injured/sick, even if it was a plausible possibility. Does he seem like someone who doesn't have the motivation to play international cricket? I mean, half the time the guy is getting bashed for showing too much emotion on the field, and now he's being accused of not caring. Honestly.

Watson's not the first player to have long term injury problems, especially not early in his career. I don't recall anyone questioning Bond or Gillespie's dedication to playing the game, so I don't see why anyone should question Watson.

AWTA. Someone who was soft would surely have jacked it in by now?

 

[howardj]

Yeah, I'm not sure it's as black and white as saying he is making up injuries. I sort of liken it to being sick during the week (where, because of work, you convince yourself that you're perhaps more sick than you actually are) and being sick on the weekend (where you brush it off and soldier on). With Watson, it's not a matter of not being committed, but rather perhaps being slightly spooked about putting it all on the line with an extended run in the longer form.

 

[four_or_six]

Yeah, I'm not sure it's as black and white as saying he is making up injuries. I sort of liken it to being sick during the week (where, because of work, you convince yourself that you're perhaps more sick than you actually are) and being sick on the weekend (where you brush it off and soldier on). With Watson, it's not a matter of not being committed, but rather perhaps being slightly spooked about putting it all on the line with an extended run in the longer form.

If it is mental, which I'm not sure it is, I think it's plausible that he gets spooked by minor things more than other players given his history. He has to feel like he's jinxed sometimes, surely? That's not the same as having a fear of performing and convincing yourself you're injured.

 

[TT Boy]

Watson's not the first player to have long term injury problems, especially not early in his career. I don't recall anyone questioning Bond or Gillespie's dedication to playing the game, so I don't see why anyone should question Watson.

I seem to recall (some) New Zealanders calling Bond soft in the past.

 

[pup11]

As far as i am concerned Watson is just unlucky or you could just say his body isn't cut out to play cricket, he has worked hard on his fitness over the years but still somehow one injury after the another has troubled him, but this time around its just a viral and nothing too serious, so hopefully he would remain fit on this tour and do well, because it has almost come to a point where you feel bad for the guy as he is talented cricketer but his constant injury problems are just not allowing his career to flourish.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Seemed a decent time to dig one of these Watson threads up.

One day out from the end of the series, he's been our best bowler after Johnson IMO, and probably been more consistent than him at that. Actually has the best statistical record aside from Krezja also, who obviously just played the one game. 10 wickets @ 30 is a pretty impressive effort for someone who was written off and mainly picked as a batsman, on dead pitches against an in-form batting lineup. Moved the ball around off the wicket a bit in Banglore and reversed it here. Overall very impressed with his bowling, much harder to score off than I expected and also more threatening.

Batting wise I think he's obviously got some work to do still, against spin especially, but he's played some encouraging innings in this series. Batted very well with Haddin in the first test, and top scored for us in Mohali. I'm pretty confident this part of his game will click if he gets a solid home summer of test cricket in. He's a very good batsman after all, even if he's not that well suited to batting at 6. He's a 40+ average test batsman in the long term.

Most importantly though, given the content of these threads, I think he's absolutely played his heart out. You really couldn't ask any more effort from the guy, given he's ran in for long spells in the heat and kept accurate even when he hasn't taken wickets, stuck with it when he's been unlucky with his bowling and capitalised when there's been help there. He's applied himself well when batting and gotten through four pretty grueling tests without any niggles. We might just have a good all-rounder on our hands over the next few years.

 

[pup11]

Seemed a decent time to dig one of these Watson threads up.

One day out from the end of the series, he's been our best bowler after Johnson IMO, and probably been more consistent than him at that. Actually has the best statistical record aside from Krezja also, who obviously just played the one game. 10 wickets @ 30 is a pretty impressive effort for someone who was written off and mainly picked as a batsman, on dead pitches against an in-form batting lineup. Moved the ball around off the wicket a bit in Banglore and reversed it here. Overall very impressed with his bowling, much harder to score off than I expected and also more threatening.

Batting wise I think he's obviously got some work to do still, against spin especially, but he's played some encouraging innings in this series. Batted very well with Haddin in the first test, and top scored for us in Mohali. I'm pretty confident this part of his game will click if he gets a solid home summer of test cricket in. He's a very good batsman after all, even if he's not that well suited to batting at 6. He's a 40+ average test batsman in the long term.

Most importantly though, given the content of these threads, I think he's absolutely played his heart out. You really couldn't ask any more effort from the guy, given he's ran in for long spells in the heat and kept accurate even when he hasn't taken wickets, stuck with it when he's been unlucky with his bowling and capitalised when there's been help there. He's applied himself well when batting and gotten through four pretty grueling tests without any niggles. We might just have a good all-rounder on our hands over the next few years.

I think Watson has been Australia' best bowler on this tour by a long stretch, Johnson might have more wickets than him but he has bowled nowhere as well as Watto has, Watto' line and length, seam position and even the ability to reverse the ball clearly made him the most potent bowler from the Aussie side.

Batting wise too he has improved his technique a lot against the spinners, AFAIC he has just been unlucky not to score more runs then he did in this series, for me this series is where Watto has come of age as a test cricketer and that is a very good thing for Australian cricket and all Watto fans.

He has himself said that he has been doing somethings differently off late, he hasn't been doing much weights and he also has been off alcohol, so whatever he seems to be doing seems to be working fine for him, as he has gone full-throttle throughout this series and still has been injury free, so that are very good signs.

 

[four_or_six]

115 top quality overs in 31 days.

 

[Richard]

DWTA, TBH. He may have been OK in patches, but the fact is he took 3 wickets in 6 overs in his opening spell of the series and 4 in 11.4 at the end of the series.

In his other 98 overs in the series, he took 3 wickets. Yes, he may have threatened more than some, but that's what he took. He was a very considerable threat in two patches at the beginning and end of the series, but that's it.

And yes, he underperformed with the bat.

 

[four_or_six]

DWTA, TBH. He may have been OK in patches, but the fact is he took 3 wickets in 6 overs in his opening spell of the series and 4 in 11.4 at the end of the series.

In his other 98 overs in the series, he took 3 wickets. Yes, he may have threatened more than some, but that's what he took. He was a very considerable threat in two patches at the beginning and end of the series, but that's it.

And yes, he underperformed with the bat.

As I commented in the other thread, most people perform worse when you removed their best figures. I reckon taking his wickets cheaper than any of the other seamers was a pretty good effort, as was his low economy rate when the bowler at the other end was generally getting tonked.

And the comment was directed at his fitness, not his batting.

 

[pup11]

DWTA, TBH. He may have been OK in patches, but the fact is he took 3 wickets in 6 overs in his opening spell of the series and 4 in 11.4 at the end of the series.

In his other 98 overs in the series, he took 3 wickets. Yes, he may have threatened more than some, but that's what he took. He was a very considerable threat in two patches at the beginning and end of the series, but that's it.

And yes, he underperformed with the bat.

Yeah he didn't do as well with the bat as expected, but he bowled really well for me, he seamed the ball, reverse swung the ball, now the fact is Watson always had the pace but he just wasn't able to move the ball, but he did that very well in this series, so his bowling is definitely on the way up, and for most Watto fans like me, the very fact that he was able to go through the whole series without getting injured was huge relief, and the whole thread is about Watto and his constant injury woes.