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Semi Finals

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Mixing of languages does happen, especially in an environment like the South African rugby team where there are multiple languages spoken. Also, white in Afrikaans is "wit", which does sound a little similar.

And I realise that comes across like the clutching of straws mentioned, and I'm sure there have been some over-zealous comments defending him. But it is an unusual insult for a South African to use, particularly one whose first language isn't English. And that's without adding the racial element, which would also be unusual to have been said by someone who's spent his career playing with white teammates.

He may very well have said it, in which case it's very disappointing and needs to be dealt with, but it's also possible that he said something else which has been misinterpreted.
This is all very well, but why would Curry have thought the comment was being made directly at him then? Worth noting that the two had previous from a Twickenham encounter.

Plenty of racist comments have been made in the past despite players having mixed race in their teams.
 

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
It will be interesting to see if an official complaint is made. Because until that happens what we have is Curry walking up to the ref and asking a very deliberate question designed to fully embarrass Bongi... what was the point of the question to the ref otherwise?
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
It will be interesting to see if an official complaint is made. Because until that happens what we have is Curry walking up to the ref and asking a very deliberate question designed to fully embarrass Bongi... what was the point of the question to the ref otherwise?
Another one of the great excuses I've read is that it was all part of the plan to unsettle the hooker by alleging him of racism (which perhaps tells you more about SA strategies over the years, the fact that this even comes to mind is extraordinary).

If it wasn't said, do you really think Curry mentions anything to the ref?
 

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Another one of the great excuses I've read is that it was all part of the plan to unsettle the hooker by alleging him of racism (which perhaps tells you more about SA strategies over the years, the fact that this even comes to mind is extraordinary).

If it wasn't said, do you really think Curry mentions anything to the ref?
I just point out that he never accuses Bongi of saying anything. All he asked the ref was what do I do if? As if that is a genuine question? Because what does he actually expect the ref to say? If he had gone up to the ref and said, I've just been racially insulted and I want to make you aware of it. Now he just gets to back peddle later down the line... that's why I`m interested and awaiting for the actual complaint to the IRB.

And if you think that racial insults are a hot topic in Britain, it is peanuts compared to what happens in SA. I promise you if you want to unsettle a SA player calling him a racist is an easy method, because of the SA history. If Bongi has made a racist insult and SA rugby becomes aware of it, the likely repercussion will be very harsh. People literally get taken to court and put in prison in SA for racist insults and racism, particularly when the media get involved and the public then get involved.
 

Ali TT

International Vice-Captain
I just point out that he never accuses Bongi of saying anything. All he asked the ref was what do I do if? As if that is a genuine question? Because what does he actually expect the ref to say? If he had gone up to the ref and said, I've just been racially insulted and I want to make you aware of it. Now he just gets to back peddle later down the line... that's why I`m interested and awaiting for the actual complaint to the IRB.

And if you think that racial insults are a hot topic in Britain, it is peanuts compared to what happens in SA. I promise you if you want to unsettle a SA player calling him a racist is an easy method, because of the SA history. If Bongi has made a racist insult and SA rugby becomes aware of it, the likely repercussion will be very harsh. People literally get taken to court and put in prison in SA for racist insults and racism, particularly when the media get involved and the public then get involved.
Over analyse what the South African said to muddy the water, now over analyse what the Englishman said.

I expect they'll struggle to find conclusive proof so nothing will happen.
 

StephenZA

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Over analyse what the South African said to muddy the water, now over analyse what the Englishman said.

I expect they'll struggle to find conclusive proof so nothing will happen.
Your assumption that he must have said it is also pretty clear... but just to be clear I in no way said he did not say it or it should not be investigated. I pointed out how this entire circumstance occurred. And yes I do find it strange how Curry approached the ref.

Here in Britain it is maybe making a bit of news in the sports section. In SA it is the top headline in the news. Trust me it is being taken very seriously in SA, and if there is any belief that Bongi said it he will be crucified. Because he could not represent SA in top sport having that hanging over his head. He will have to convince everyone he plays with.
 

Uppercut

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I guess we'll never know for sure whether it's what he said, but from what I've read it seems unlikely to me. Just that he would work his entire life in an extraordinarily racially sensitive environment, then lose his head so badly that he... uses a racialised version of an insult that's almost unheard of in South Africa? That would be much weirder than him using an Afrikaans expression and being misheard.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
I expect they'll struggle to find conclusive proof so nothing will happen.
This is probably the most likely outcome. Unless he was close enough to a camera/microphone then there's not going to be any audio of what was said and they wouldn't punish Mbonambi just because Curry said that he said something.
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Your assumption that he must have said it is also pretty clear... but just to be clear I in no way said he did not say it or it should not be investigated. I pointed out how this entire circumstance occurred. And yes I do find it strange how Curry approached the ref.
I feel certain he said it and Curry was fully aware what was meant too. There was no benefit to Curry for making it up or even saying something if there was a chance of a misunderstanding. You've only got to look at the potential social media pile on to recognise that (see Vinicius Jnr).

But I doubt anything will be proven unless it was picked up on a mic somewhere.
 

ripper868

International Coach
"Certain" from a lounge room far away, having never met the alleged offender, the player making the claim, being within earshot of said offence, and there being zero conclusive footage/audio as to what happened.

I dont know Bongi personally, but given the environment he's grown up, I'd expect this isn't something he'd do.
We won't ever know until Curry's tell all memoir.
 

Ali TT

International Vice-Captain
Here's footage of the incident with audio.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/17eocim

I can't make out what's being said, but comments claim that it's "wit kant" or "wyd kant", which would be "white side" or "wide side". Those make sense in the context of the ball coming out of the ruck, but there's just no way to be certain based on that clip.
So South Africans think it's something else, English fans remain suspicious.
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
"Certain" from a lounge room far away, having never met the alleged offender, the player making the claim, being within earshot of said offence, and there being zero conclusive footage/audio as to what happened.
Yeah, it’s ridiculous isn’t it. Just highlighting all those S African excusers who seem to understand better what was said than the bloke it was actually said to!
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Here's footage of the incident with audio.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/17eocim

I can't make out what's being said, but comments claim that it's "wit kant" or "wyd kant", which would be "white side" or "wide side". Those make sense in the context of the ball coming out of the ruck, but there's just no way to be certain based on that clip.
Erm, why would he say “White Side” when England take the ball into the ruck? Surely, only a turnover would provoke that kind of comment.

And wouldn’t it be “blind side” or “open side” not “wide side”?

So really, no sense at all, just desperate straw clutching…
 

Uppercut

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Yeah, it’s ridiculous isn’t it. Just highlighting all those S African excusers who seem to understand better what was said than the bloke it was actually said to!
What’s really happening is that the South African posters are saying ‘we can’t possibly know what was said’ and you’re saying ‘he definitely said X, I can’t produce any evidence but I just know it in my HEART’.
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
What’s really happening is that the South African posters are saying ‘we can’t possibly know what was said’ and you’re saying ‘he definitely said X, I can’t produce any evidence but I just know it in my HEART’.
As opposed to the theory that Curry came up with the question to embarrass him????
 

Molehill

Cricketer Of The Year
Regardless of whether that's actually what he said, why are you assuming that Afrikaans rugby terms are direct translations of English ones?
Sorry, I admit to not being a linguistic expert. I should hand over these responsibilities to those who translate 2 basic words that they didn’t hear into something totally different.
 

ripper868

International Coach
I'm making zero excuses, if he has used a racial slur, then yeah, write him up. However, the consideration that he's communicating to his team can't be discounted - if the translation is blind side, or white side or whatever, it's feasible. It's not the total straw man excuse that you keep claiming it is.

In playing the game for 20 or so years I've heard it call short side, open side, blind side, wide side, tight side, Green/Blue/Red/Grey side (when operating a sectional name system, which was frankly stupid). There are many ways that many things on the pitch are called in English, so i'm sure there are also in other languages.

Watching/listening to that footage, the nearest I can make out is he yells it as the kick is about to go to the corner, which given the translation and context, would seem to make more sense it's a directional instruction to his own team rather than a directed slur at Curry.

Curry of course is at no fault either to report what he thought was a slur.

Maybe, it's a molehill being made out of an anthill?

Or maybe, Bongi is just a racist prick who somehow became the (vice) captain of his country that has a bit of background with this kind of stuff.
 

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