Second greatest Australian batsman

[SJS]

Hard choice but I say Allan Border, as he had to carry that team on his own for so many years.

We forget how s**t that Australian team of the mid/late 80's was, after Chappell, Marsh & Lillee all retired at once, and then all the next best players went on the rebel Sth Africa tour & got banned.

If AB had the luxury of being in the current Oz team, with the backup of several quality top order batsmen, who knows how much better his record would be?

We have a saying in Hindi "andhon mein kaana raja" ie, amongst the completely blind, a one eyed man could be king.

With no disrespect meant to Border, this line of crediting a batsman for the wretchedness of his team mates is not a great theory. Border may be called by some as the second best Australian batsman (not me) but the criteria will have to be better.

 

[Richard]

We forget how s**t that Australian team of the mid/late 80's was, after Chappell, Marsh & Lillee all retired at once, and then all the next best players went on the rebel Sth Africa tour & got banned.

What a terrible side it was, with Border himself, Boon, Kepler Wessels, a young Stephen Waugh (all right not anything like the player he was in the 1990s), McDermott, Reid, Lawson, and Alderman, who when he wasn't injured or practising the immoralities was a quite magnificent bowler in the right conditions.
It wasn't anywhere near as good as the sides of the '70s with Redpath, the Chappells, Lillee, McCosker, Edwards, Walters, Marsh, Walker, Gilmour, Thomson and Mallett; nor of the '90s with Taylor, Slater, both Waughs, Ponting, Langer (eventually), Warne, McGrath, Fleming and the like.
But it most certainly was not the worst outfit you'll see at Test-level. It wasn't, however, anywhere near up to the West Indies (not surprising) or England (who most certainly weren't bad either with Gooch, Gower, Gatting, Botham, Ellison et al).

 

[Fiery]

Because it was a quite understandible "cry for help".
Have you not heard his explanation of the thing?

That "cry for help" excuse is pathetic.
He ordered the underarm because he is a cheating, sheep-stealing Aussie and couldn't bare to lose to the kiwis. He was actually brilliantly caught by Snedden when he batted and refused to take Sneds word that he had caught it, the cheating dingo.

 

[Fiery]

(who most certainly weren't bad either with Gooch, Gower, Gatting, Botham, Ellison et al).

Ellison?! Are we talking Richard Ellison? How could you include that afroed muppet in this company?

 

[Richard]

Err - because if you'd actually watched him bowl with any attention you might just notice he could be a quite devestating bowler if he got it right.
Quite what him being afroed has to do with anything I'm not sure - it ain't like he was alone in that in the '80s.

 

[Richard]

That "cry for help" excuse is pathetic.
He ordered the underarm because he is a cheating, sheep-stealing Aussie and couldn't bare to lose to the kiwis. He was actually brilliantly caught by Snedden when he batted and refused to take Sneds word that he had caught it, the cheating dingo.

Jesus Christ, I've not seen many bitter Kiwis in my time... made-up for all that in one fell swoop.
Was there really a chance of that brilliant batsman Brian McKechnie striking a six? No, not a realistic one. The game was done; McKechnie was not amused, no, and understandibly, but I can think of several occasions where it's quite a good job the thing happened when it did and brought the rule-change in before a really important match could genuinely have it's course altered by such tactics.

 

[marc71178]

Ironically today is the anniversary of it.

 

[Triple Crown]

As far as the "sh*t" aussie team of the mid 80's, I'm talking about the period from 1984 to 1987, prior to the WC win, which turned things around somewhat.

What a terrible side it was, with Border himself, Boon, Kepler Wessels, a young Stephen Waugh (all right not anything like the player he was in the 1990s), McDermott, Reid, Lawson, and Alderman, who when he wasn't injured or practising the immoralities was a quite magnificent bowler in the right conditions.

Lets see,

Boon - Young, inexperienced & not yet at his peak
Kepler Wessels - Went back to SA
Steve Waugh - Young, inexperienced & not yet at his peak
McDermott - Young, inexperienced & not yet at his peak
Reid - Hardly in the side due to chronic back injurires
Lawson - Great bowler at his best but prone to injury & couldn't do it all on his own
Alderman - Went on the rebel SA tour & was banned.

So that list starts to look thin now, doesn't it? Maybe calling the side sh*t was too harsh. I think it seemed that way because the ACB in their wisdom chose to play the West Indies a LOT during that period, & Richard Hadlee was at his peak & tore Aust apart.

As far as AB being the 2nd best Aust batsman, I don't know. Maybe he isn't. I just wanted to make the point that he spent the best years of his career fighting rearguard actions with little or no support, constantly thinking "if I get out, we're gonna lose". It would have been interesting if he'd had a few more reliable players around him & he could cut loose without having to worry so much.

 

[Hasib]

From what i have heard of Victor Trumper, he is it... its sad that he died so early...

 

[chaminda_00]

Victor Trumper just over Greg Chappell. It is pretty hard to judge people over different eras.

 

[Right arm fast]

from wat ive seen on tapes border imo was the second best

 

[Fiery]

Err - because if you'd actually watched him bowl with any attention you might just notice he could be a quite devestating bowler if he got it right.
Quite what him being afroed has to do with anything I'm not sure - it ain't like he was alone in that in the '80s.

Devastating on a green top maybe. I remember him well and was just shocked that you had included a one-test-wonder with questionable fitness and a total of 35 tests wickets to his name in such illustrious company. The afro part was just for emphasis and "muppet" is what I call all Englishmen.

 

[Scallywag]

That "cry for help" excuse is pathetic.
He ordered the underarm because he is a cheating, sheep-stealing Aussie and couldn't bare to lose to the kiwis. He was actually brilliantly caught by Snedden when he batted and refused to take Sneds word that he had caught it, the cheating dingo.

And I bet your excuse was the sheep accidently got its hooves stuck in your gumboots.

 

[Fiery]

And I bet your excuse was the sheep accidently got its hooves stuck in your gumboots.

We're in love, actually

 

[Scallywag]

We're in love, actually

Thats what she tells all the farmboys.

 

[Fiery]

Thats what she tells all the farmboys.

Not Baarbara. She's different.

 

[deeps]

Err - because if you'd actually watched him bowl with any attention you might just notice he could be a quite devestating bowler if he got it right.

just like javagal srinath and heath streak and dion nash i'm guessinG? id!ot

 

[Scallywag]

Not Baarbara. She's different.

Different? you mean shes hung.

 

[Fiery]

Different? you mean shes hung.

Careful what you say about her man.
Since you mention it, I did have a nasty surprise with Baarney. The name should have given it away but he was quite convincing.

 

[Scallywag]

Sorry Fiery, I feel a bit sheepish myself after that exchange.