Second best England Test bat to have debuted post-1970?

[Zinzan]

Pietersen=Gower=Gooch for me

Would have said KP if not for him petering out towards the end.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Broad over Gough

Actually Bob Willis (debuted 1971) over both of them. Will edit post.

 

[grecian]

I often wonder if KP had a Lara like end to him. He was around 32 when he was unceremoniously dropped and his stats must have been very similar to Lara at the same age. Then he went on to have a great run for Surrey and almost got picked for 2015 Ashes. Who knows he could have ended with 11K runs at an average tick over 50 and gone down as true ATG. He was willing to play on as well

Also who was the bloke sacked him sighting that he wasn't looking all that interested in 13/14 ashes? Briefly became head of the cricket board or something of similar statue and curtailed a great career. KP had it coming of course

He'd also asked to be retired from 50 overs and gad an incredibly dodgy knee, which meant he played not much vrivkrt in any form after 32..

Look, despite my dislike for the man I fully understand those that rate him higher than his stats suggest, remembering he did play in a decent time for batsman, as I still rate Viv Richards as the greatest I've seen even though stats say that is ridiculous, cricket is more than that.

Yet Oddly I felt on that basis Gower as more of the man who had a god-given gift, and Like Richards and KP, he often seemed to throw innings away in a lackadaisical manner.

TBH I agree with Zinzan it's all pretty close to call, but I'd put thorpe in too, and Cook isn't far behind.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Would get thrashed by England debuted pre 1970.

Maybe the players are of the same quality, the rest of the world just got better.

 

[Johan]

I mean , even Boycott from 60s outbatted Gooch by quiet a margin in 70s and early 80s ( while averaging 50+ at that ) , don't wanna imagine how Hutton would do next to Gooch.

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

Maybe the players are of the same quality, the rest of the world just got better.

Or it probably has got to do with the fact that the participation in cricket or the popularity of the game is way less in England than before.
Looking at how good Australian team has been in the same time this seems most likely the cause.And I think I am right in saying the no.of people playing cricket in Australia in current day would still be slightly less than in Trumper’s,Bradman’s time.

 

[trundler]

Cook
Gooch
Gower
Root
Pietersen
Stokes
Prior+
Botham
Swann
Willis
Anderson

Hutton
Sutcliffe
Hammond
Barrington
Compton
Dexter
Knott+
Larwood
Statham
Verity
Trueman

Hobbs
Grace
Shrewsbury
Ranjitsinhji
Jackson
Stoddart
Briggs
Lilley+
Shaw
Barnes
Lohmann


Not sure about the #6 in the last side.

 

[BazBall21]

Cook
Gooch
Gower
Root
Pietersen
Stokes
Prior+
Botham
Swann
Willis
Anderson

Hutton
Sutcliffe
Hammond
Barrington
Compton
Dexter
Knott+
Larwood
Statham
Verity
Trueman

Hobbs
Grace
Shrewsbury
Ranjitsinhji
Jackson
Stoddart
Briggs
Lilley+
Shaw
Barnes
Lohmann


Not sure about the #6 in the last side.

Verity over Laker due to flatter era?

 

[trundler]

Verity over Laker due to flatter era?

And the Bradman effect on his average.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Or it probably has got to do with the fact that the participation in cricket or the popularity of the game is way less in England than before.
Looking at how good Australian team has been in the same time this seems most likely the cause.And I think I am right in saying the no.of people playing cricket in Australia in current day would still be slightly less than in Trumper’s,Bradman’s time.

Yeah in the past cricket was seen as England's game and was as big (or bigger) than Association Football.

 

[Johan]

Verity over Laker due to flatter era?

Verity averaged 14.9 in his first class career so maybe that plays a favour.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Cook
Gooch
Gower
Root
Pietersen
Stokes
Prior+
Botham
Swann
Willis
Anderson

Hutton
Sutcliffe
Hammond
Barrington
Compton
Dexter
Knott+
Larwood
Statham
Verity
Trueman

Hobbs
Grace
Shrewsbury
Ranjitsinhji
Jackson
Stoddart
Briggs
Lilley+
Shaw
Barnes
Lohmann


Not sure about the #6 in the last side.

Could consider Foster or Fry.

 

[ImpatientLime]

the absolute state of people batting botham below prior

 

[trundler]

the absolute state of people batting botham below prior

He's also the third seamer so it's more of a workload thingy. Obviously a better batsman than Prior.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

With Botham and stokes there you don’t need a substandard keeper scoring runs at all. Just pick Russell, who’s by no means a rabbit.

 

[trundler]

I didn't want to pick Prior but the other options I've seen were even less appealing. Don't know enough about keeping to rank guys like Russell and Bob Taylor tbh.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Taylor is world class and only a smidge behind Alan Knott for keeping, but he’s not good enough with the bat in the modern era. Russell is high class if not 100% consistent. Prior was a dog.

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Prior was a dog.

sounds like he compares favourably to Jack Russell then

 

[Coronis]

Huh i really though Knott had debuted after 1970 fsr.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Huh i really though Knott had debuted after 1970 fsr.

Mid 60s