Sachin and Ganguly dominate Namibia

[Rik]

Maybe it's because you watch so much country cricket that you think that only the games played in England are indicative of anything.

Maybe I only saw one match on the TV and saw him play another match in the CC. That's not too much is it? Average of 33 and h/s of 99, how is that impressive?

 

[krkode]

Maybe I only saw one match on the TV and saw him play another match in the CC. That's not too much is it? Average of 33 and h/s of 99, how is that impressive?

Well so he had a bad season. Doesn't everybody?

 

[Rik]

Namibia or Australia, a hundred is a hundred and for one out of form for so long, I'm glad he found it again...

And you're probably right about the statue thing

Yes but let's not get too excited about it. Sachin played the better innings anyway.

 

[full_length]

Not everyone in India

Some parts and some people in those parts are more demonstrative, and they go around vandalising, effigy burning, and the such for next to nothing.

As for the hype, I dont know who's worse, they or the media. Must point out that hype is not India's monopoly. Good that Indians atleast criticize other Indians for the hype. Not sure that that happens enough in other places.

 

[full_length]

"Maybe I only saw one match on the TV and saw him play another match in the CC. That's not too much is it? Average of 33 and h/s of 99, how is that impressive?"

What does that mean? Does it mean you saw two matches in that Country Cricket season?

Anyhow, I guess the answer doesnt matter.
I dont care if he had an average of 0 and a highest of 0 in the CC season. Similarly if he had a century every match there. He's done very well for India in International cricket.
I must, again, say that if you are judging him based on those two matches and two numbers you've got your head firmly in the sand.

I was under the impression all along that you'd seen a lot of Ganguly and werent impressed by his batting whether or not he made runs, and that perhaps it just happens that you picked matches he's not played at his classy best!!

That would have been understandable. I didnt think Ganguly deserved his ODI place at some time in the late nineties, because his legside play was terrible. But as he improved his allround game, and started winning matches for India- the ONLY chap other than Sachin to win matches off his bat for a long time (Dravid wasnt doing it, though he was playing well in the support cast), I became a big fan of his. He developed those lofted slogs over cover, and perfected the dance down the track over time, and has become one of the very best ODI players in the world. Enough to not be judged based on what he did in 'CC' in England :P


And what's this about "Sachin played the better knock anyway"? He usually does! Doesnt mean that you can knock Ganguly after he's hit a century...


Ofcourse, that's Namibia and I;m not reading anything into this 311 at all. I expected us to do this. Infact the only India matches I am seeing in the WC prelims are vs Aus, Pak and England.
We've lost one of those

 

[Anil]

Yes but let's not get too excited about it. Sachin played the better innings anyway.

...because he is the better and more complete player by far(that should read Sachin in case you're confused). Does that need to be explained to you? Ganguly has been an exceptional one day player over the years against all comers and he has a better average abroad(in ODIs) than Sachin(39.58 to 33.67, again not suggesting that he is better than Sachin). If you are judging him based on what he has done in CC or on one England or NZ tour, you are being very shortsighted. Methinks you have a real prejudice against him for his few failures and so-called attitude problems. Exactly what were these "attitude" issues? You have mentioned them a lot without actually explaining them. The big attitude issue I found with Ganguly was when after the Australia match, he admitted publicly that he was totally clueless, that really alarmed me because I didn't expect that from the Indian captain. If it is removing his shirt and waving it after winning the Natwest or hitting back at Waugh for trashtalking India or some such thing, I just dismiss these claims as rubbish. If there is something else and if you can explain what it is....once again, I am just evaluating him as a one day player, not as a captain, not as a test player, understand that.

 

[marc71178]

Or maybe Nehra's unlucky it happened? He was bowling well.

For all one ball he delivered!

Good news is that Saurav tried out most of his bowling options, and had a look at what form they are in.

It's one thing trying them against Namibia, but when it comes to the crunch can he really trust them?

 

[Anil]

It's one thing trying them against Namibia, but when it comes to the crunch can he really trust them?

Whe they are all he has, what option does he have but to trust them?

 

[krkode]

For all one ball he delivered!

I think he was talking about Nehra's 140+ deliveries in the Zimbabwe game, implying that he could've done good things today :P

 

[krkode]

And @ Anilramavarma,

I once read somewhere about Ganguly's so called "attitude problem" while in the CC with Lancashire. Apparently, he didn't come to team parties and just didn't fit in with his English counterparts.
I can hardly blame him for that.
So what if he doesn't get along well in another culture?

Ok, so it might've been a mistake to go there in the first place, but he went there, he tried English CC, probably didn't like it, they probably didn't like him, so what the hec - he won't do it again.:rolleyes:

I can see why Rik wouldn't like him because he's seen little of him, but when you're Indian, you gotta love Ganguly (well atleast if you're like me) :P

 

[Anil]

And @ Anilramavarma,

I once read somewhere about Ganguly's so called "attitude problem" while in the CC with Lancashire. Apparently, he didn't come to team parties and just didn't fit in with his English counterparts.
I can hardly blame him for that.
So what if he doesn't get along well in another culture?

Ok, so it might've been a mistake to go there in the first place, but he went there, he tried English CC, probably didn't like it, they probably didn't like him, so what the hec - he won't do it again.:rolleyes:

I can see why Rik wouldn't like him because he's seen little of him, but when you're Indian, you gotta love Ganguly (well atleast if you're like me) :P

Oh, I really hadn't heard about that. Well, unless I hear both sides of the story, I wouldn't criticize Gangs for whatever happened. Maybe Rik doesn't like his attitude, but how can he discount his abilities as a one day batsman? If he had given a balanced view, I wouldn't have argued with him. As it is, it is very clearly pure prejudice on his part. Ah, well...he is young, he'll learn. BTW, call me Anil, Anilramavarma is too much of a mouthful, or should I say, keyboardful?

 

[Bazza]

So why does everyone want to see him replaced as captain and been saying for several months now he should be dropped because he isn't good enough? And I am talking about Indians here not me or Rik or whoever. I have heard many people calling for Gangulys head for a very long time, and if team selection was a democracy I doubt he would even be in South Africa right now.

[br]Originally posted by krkode[/br]Namibia or Australia, a hundred is a hundred and for one out of form for so long, I'm glad he found it again...

Not really. Many people can get hundreds against Namibia I would have thought. Against Australia? A whole different ball game.

[br]Originally posted by full_length[/br]You did mention form.. and that remains to be seen. In ODIs, Saurav is never out of form for long, and dont throw that NZ tour at me

Why not? He looked hopelessly out of form in recent times and for quite a sustained period in my opinion.

OK take nothing away, India beat Namibia emphatically, but come on, if they didn't win you would be very worried wouldn't you. Once again the upturn in morale from about a week ago is almost unbelievable. Yay we beat Zimbabwe and Namibia. Lets have a party.

 

[krkode]

Not really. Many people can get hundreds against Namibia I would have thought. Against Australia? A whole different ball game.

For a man as out-of-form as he was, It's all the same

Today, Ganguly and Tendulkar both became the first players to have ODI centuries against 10 different teams...

 

[Bazza]

Surprisingly Tendulkar doesn't have one against Bangladesh yet.

 

[full_length]

So why does everyone want to see him replaced as captain and been saying for several months now he should be dropped because he isn't good enough? And I am talking about Indians here not me or Rik or whoever. I have heard many people calling for Gangulys head for a very long time, and if team selection was a democracy I doubt he would even be in South Africa right now.

That's what I dont get at all. Media and commentators have been most unkind to him since he became captain despite the obvious results. All good moves and results are very carefully attributed to individual brilliance, and all poor results on Ganguly's poor captaincy and more ridiculously his attitude, wealth, and whatnot.
If you remember, Sachin was accused of dropping his game because he became captain. He was given a hell of a time by the knowalls who didnt notice that we played our toughest tours under him, almost won/drew in WI and SA but for rain/inability to chase down a paltry 120. Further, I remember that he made 1000 runs in test and ODI cricket the very year all the criticism came out! Not only that, he simply didnt get the team he wanted, ever! The second best batsman in the team was playing like a disgruntled idiot for a good part of the time even if he looked good smashing Klusener all over the park.
It's probably just something we do to our captains. Azhar probably even got off lightly!

I credit Ganguly even more for his achievements each time some more undeserved brickbats come his way.

I once read somewhere about Ganguly's so called "attitude problem" while in the CC with Lancashire. Apparently, he didn't come to team parties and just didn't fit in with his English counterparts.
I can hardly blame him for that.
So what if he doesn't get along well in another culture?

Ok, so it might've been a mistake to go there in the first place, but he went there, he tried English CC, probably didn't like it, they probably didn't like him, so what the hec - he won't do it again.

If you find those articles, post 'em here. I'd be interested to see clear quotes from his team mates/opponents about what they perceived as Ganguly's arrogance.
I'll give you an example of how these myths go around. Find me the proof that Ganguly refused to carry water for the seniors in when he toured Australia as a 17 year old. I have a quote from Ganguly that addressed that clearly and he said that didnt happen. He asks how could a 17 year old kid do that when he's playing for India for the first time.. I've not seen one quote that nails Saurav conclusively for the socalled misdemenour.

Saurav is someone that the media loves to hate. He's also someone that keeps embarassing the media by continuing to get results as India's captain.

 

[Anil]

So why does everyone want to see him replaced as captain and been saying for several months now he should be dropped because he isn't good enough? And I am talking about Indians here not me or Rik or whoever. I have heard many people calling for Gangulys head for a very long time, and if team selection was a democracy I doubt he would even be in South Africa right now.



Not really. Many people can get hundreds against Namibia I would have thought. Against Australia? A whole different ball game.



Why not? He looked hopelessly out of form in recent times and for quite a sustained period in my opinion.

OK take nothing away, India beat Namibia emphatically, but come on, if they didn't win you would be very worried wouldn't you. Once again the upturn in morale from about a week ago is almost unbelievable. Yay we beat Zimbabwe and Namibia. Lets have a party.

I never said he was a great captain. I still don't think so, but I never said he should be replaced after the NZ tour so close to the WC. He has had decent results and should be counted as an average-to-good captain. He was out of form(as a batsman) in one dayers in the NZ tour. Before that, he had an excellent home one day series against the Windies and a moderate one in England. So, where is the sustained loss of form(as a batsman) in one dayers that you're talking about?

Who's having a party because India beat Zimbabwe and Namibia? Certainly not me nor any of the other Indians in this forum. Are we all happy because India won? Yes, we are. Is there a rise in expectations regarding a spot in the super six because of this? Yes, not because of the victories themselves, but because of the emphatic manner in which they were achieved. Is there a rise in expectations regarding winning the cup because of these victories back in India? Probably yes, among the "fans" who really follow the game just with their heart and never with their mind, but these extreme reactions and these extreme fans have been a part and parcel of the game in India for a long time now.

His average against Australia is not the greatest, but just for the record, he has played 3 matches against Australia in Australia and hit a century against them in one. So, just because he scored a century against Namibia doesn't mean that it is beyond him to score one against Australia.

 

[Rik]

Surprisingly Tendulkar doesn't have one against Bangladesh yet.

Has he played them?

 

[Bazza]

If you find those articles, post 'em here.

I had a quick look for some stuff just now. It's amazing how you can never find articles on Cricinfo when you want to!

 

[Bazza]

His average against Australia is not the greatest, but just for the record, he has played 3 matches against Australia in Australia and hit a century against them in one. So, just because he scored a century against Namibia doesn't mean that it is beyond him to score one against Australia.

I didn't say that. I just said scoring a century against Namibia is not the same as scoring one against Australia as krkode implied with his comment "a century is a century".

 

[Bazza]

Has he played them?

Yes 6 times. He has also failed to score one against Holland and UAE, but has only met them once, so I'll let him off!