SA t20 tournament

[StephenZA]

Elitist comment comes from the underlying problems in the SA cricket but also SA sport... in the clear boys school 'requirement'. Not everybody but too many! Not unique to SA, not unique to cricket, common across industry. And this is because the same players, coaches, local people in the know are part of the same small group. It would have been really nice to look up the unexpected Donavon Ferreira (and good for him) and find him come from some unknown school, and people had done their research. Except not...

What's the local PE joke... how do you know if somebody went to 'Grey'.. they told you in the first 10 min of meeting them!

And from a big picture point of view, where this is meant to make a difference in the lives of all cricketers in SA, this becomes a problem...

 

[StephenZA]

And on Bavuma and Elgar... I`m a bit old school and think the steadiness at the top of the order is worth it and both of them are highly underated LO players. (and perception is everything!) But that's just a personal opinion.

 

[kevinw]

Not sure about the domestic players they signed at the back end, but MI Cape Town look pretty stacked for a starting XI.

These auctions always seem a bit random, particularly with the re-run when previously unsigned players then go for big money but it's all about supply and demand and what sides are missing by then.

 

[Marius]

Elitist comment comes from the underlying problems in the SA cricket but also SA sport... in the clear boys school 'requirement'. Not everybody but too many! Not unique to SA, not unique to cricket, common across industry. And this is because the same players, coaches, local people in the know are part of the same small group. It would have been really nice to look up the unexpected Donavon Ferreira (and good for him) and find him come from some unknown school, and people had done their research. Except not...

What's the local PE joke... how do you know if somebody went to 'Grey'.. they told you in the first 10 min of meeting them!

And from a big picture point of view, where this is meant to make a difference in the lives of all cricketers in SA, this becomes a problem...

The management of these teams are made up of Indians, Kiwis, Aussies etc, not just Saffas who are enmeshed in old boys' networks. Not sure they give a solitary poo what school someone like Ferreira went to.

 

[StephenZA]

The management of these teams are made up of Indians, Kiwis, Aussies etc, not just Saffas who are enmeshed in old boys' networks. Not sure they give a solitary poo what school someone like Ferreira went to.

Do you really think they not taking heavy advice from the SA people they know, who are all part of the same network? If you want to say it does not exist or effect recommendations, well...

I am still hopeful that in long run most of that will change with both the outside influence and hopefully proper funding based on the monies this brings in.

 

[Stefan9]

Seen different claims on Twitter that SA centrally contracted players couldn't change their reserve price, so not sure. If AP and TB had had lower reserve prices I think they both would have been bought.

Verreyne and janneman are both centrally contracted and set their prices well below R875k.

 

[Marius]

Verreyne and janneman are both centrally contracted and set their prices well below R875k.

Yes, I know, but what I'm saying is the reserve price couldn't be changed, according to some. So Janneman etc already had lower prices.

 

[Marius]

Do you really think they not taking heavy advice from the SA people they know, who are all part of the same network? If you want to say it does not exist or effect recommendations, well...

I am still hopeful that in long run most of that will change with both the outside influence and hopefully proper funding based on the monies this brings in.

Ok, which guys that didn't go to traditional cricket schools or through the traditional pipeline should have been bought in the auction that weren't?

 

[StephenZA]

Ok, which guys that didn't go to traditional cricket schools or through the traditional pipeline should have been bought in the auction that weren't?

I`m not saying that somebody I know off missed out... I talked about the elitism apparent, which is that the people chosen obviously came from the same sort of close knit community that you generally observe. Its nothing new or something not already known within the structure of SA cricket (and SA sport) it is just a continuation of the same thing. How do I know of a player that went to some random school I will have never heard about... but you would hope that the people whose job it is to scout, look for and try to get the most out of all talent in SA are looking. But so far that is few and far between. It is one of the things that makes Steyn's story a bit more amazing than many other players in SA...

 

[Stefan9]

Yes, I know, but what I'm saying is the reserve price couldn't be changed, according to some. So Janneman etc already had lower prices.

My understanding is all proteas centrally contracted players were set at R875k initially but could change it before the auction. Some like Verreynne did. Others like bavuma and andile didn't.

They couldn't change once the auction started.

 

[Marius]

I`m not saying that somebody I know off missed out... I talked about the elitism apparent, which is that the people chosen obviously came from the same sort of close knit community that you generally observe. Its nothing new or something not already known within the structure of SA cricket (and SA sport) it is just a continuation of the same thing. How do I know of a player that went to some random school I will have never heard about... but you would hope that the people whose job it is to scout, look for and try to get the most out of all talent in SA are looking. But so far that is few and far between. It is one of the things that makes Steyn's story a bit more amazing than many other players in SA...

That's a different, more structural issue. These guys can only pick what's in front of them.

And cricket will be, by its nature, fairly elitist. Most guys who play for England were privately educated, NZ too, not sure about Aus but wouldn't be surprised. The number of dalits and Muslims (traditionally disadvantaged communities in India) who have played for the national side is far below their proportion of the broader Indian population.

 

[StephenZA]

That's a different, more structural issue. These guys can only pick what's in front of them.

And cricket will be, by its nature, fairly elitist. Most guys who play for England were privately educated, NZ too, not sure about Aus but wouldn't be surprised. The number of dalits and Muslims (traditionally disadvantaged communities in India) who have played for the national side is far below their proportion of the broader Indian population.

Hence my comment that it not unique to SA (or even cricket)... but it is still something that exists and becomes (at least to me) very apparent when you watch something like this auction; which is described as something to help SA cricket grow in general and you see that is not the case. It just highlights the issues, which in a country like SA with its political and social issues, is a big problem.

 

[Marius]

Hence my comment that it not unique to SA (or even cricket)... but it is still something that exists and becomes (at least to me) very apparent when you watch something like this auction; which is described as something to help SA cricket grow in general and you see that is not the case. It just highlights the issues, which in a country like SA with its political and social issues, is a big problem.

What is the solution?

 

[StephenZA]

What is the solution?

Recognition of the problem, grass roots investment, better talent scouting etc etc etc... same old, same old. Hence...

I am still hopeful that in long run most of that will change with both the outside influence and hopefully proper funding based on the monies this brings in.

 

[Marius]

Recognition of the problem, grass roots investment, better talent scouting etc etc etc... same old, same old. Hence...

You could argue that with this investment of IPL money in SA sides this will happen more and more. Arguably Marco Jansen would't already be the cricketer he is without MI talent spotting.

 

[honestbharani]

The number of dalits and Muslims (traditionally disadvantaged communities in India)

Dont mean to discuss Indian societal issues here but you are wrong. The former had definitely been a traditionally disadvantaged community in India but not the latter.

 

[Marius]

Dont mean to discuss Indian societal issues here but you are wrong. The former had definitely been a traditionally disadvantaged community in India but not the latter.

Muslims have lower incomes and levels of education than Hindus, not so?

 

[honestbharani]

Muslims have lower incomes and levels of education than Hindus, not so?

Not so.

We can continue this discussion if you wanna in the Indian Politics thread.

 

[Marius]

This good by Manthorp on why neither TB or AP got an SA20 gig.

Humble Yourself to Prosper

The SA20 Player Auction

mannersoncricket.substack.com

 

[Nintendo]

I initially thought bavuma not being picked was him being a bad t20 bat, but he averages roughly 33.8 @127 in t20's excluding t20I and has a 100 in the format, plus he's captaincy material. Feels odd that none of the franchises would pick him.