Round 16 and Beyond

[Scaly piscine]

Is it me or is this match for to find out who will finish 3rd is a waste of time?

It doesn't prove anything, and I don't think the players need to be reminded of their failure to make the final, it is hurting enough as it is, and now have to play a match, when they would rather go on their break, and risk getting an unnessacary injury and FIFA earning the scorne of the G14.

About as irrelevant as the England v Jamiaca friendly for example IMO.

Well if Ronaldo is playing we can all watch in hope that he gets snapped in half by yet another cynical German challenge™

 

[Craig]

Well if Ronaldo is playing we can all watch in hope that he gets snapped in half by yet another cynical German challenge™

Lol.

Showing no love is lost then?

 

[wpdavid]

Is it me or is this match for to find out who will finish 3rd is a waste of time?

It doesn't prove anything, and I don't think the players need to be reminded of their failure to make the final, it is hurting enough as it is, and now have to play a match, when they would rather go on their break, and risk getting an unnessacary injury and FIFA earning the scorne of the G14.

About as irrelevant as the England v Jamiaca friendly for example IMO.

Agreed. I thought they did away with it at one point, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

 

[Magrat Garlick]

Agreed. I thought they did away with it at one point, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

There was no third-place play-off in 1930.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Germany busy showing everyone again how ordinary Portugal are. Top job the vegetable in getting England knocked out by that lot twice.

 

[BoyBrumby]

I was initially struggling to care, but when the camera pans to a certain greasy-haired, zitty, diving chav it's "Go Jerry!"

 

[wpdavid]

There was no third-place play-off in 1930.

That'll be the one I was thinking of.

 

[steds]

That'll be the one I was thinking of.

You could also be thinking European Championships, who did away with 3rd place playoffs after 1980.

 

[Matteh]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

3-1

Diese Abend bin ich stolz, dass ich in Hannover geboren war

 

[Stefano]

Tension is growing! I am nervous!

Italy has not defeated France since 1978 World Cup, when Azzuri won 2-1. Lacombe scored for France in the 1st minute (one of the fastest goals ever), but then Italy came back. After that France has always won against us.

1982 - Friendly Match in Paris: France - Italy 2-0
1986 - World Cup in Mexico City: Italy - France 0-2
1994 - Friendly Match in Napoli: Italy - France 0-1
1998 - World Cup in Paris: Italy - France 3-4 (penalties)
2000 - European Championship: France - Italy 0-1 (extra time)

So, five straight defeats versus France. I hope we will finish this streak.

 

[marc71178]

Germany busy showing everyone again how ordinary Portugal are. Top job the vegetable in getting England knocked out by that lot twice.

So Sven sent Rooney off then?

And Sven missed the penalties...

 

[Scaly piscine]

So Sven sent Rooney off then?

And Sven missed the penalties...

With a manager that just kept it simple, 4-4-2 etc. England would have been ahead by that time and Rooney wouldn't have been so frustrated playing on his own and not seeing the ball for long periods so in all probably he wouldn't have got sent off either. But then you won't even accept that the vegetable cost England in 2004 so the blindingly obvious will probably pass you by here as well.

 

[Craig]

No but Eriksson should of had them working on penalties once they qualifyed for the second round.

How many times must England lose on a penalty shoot-out and not still do anything about it?

 

[marc71178]

He did have them practising - but I don't think practising in training is anywhere near as effective as it's cracked up to be.

As for the 442 argument - 451 suited our strongest area much better, our midfield, and I didn't see any complaints about it when the exact same formation was adopted against Ecuador.

And since the manager cannot be blamed for freak injuries, red cards and players underperforming, it's not his fault.

 

[BoyBrumby]

He did have them practising - but I don't think practising in training is anywhere near as effective as it's cracked up to be.

As for the 442 argument - 451 suited our strongest area much better, our midfield, and I didn't see any complaints about it when the exact same formation was adopted against Ecuador.

And since the manager cannot be blamed for freak injuries, red cards and players underperforming, it's not his fault.

TBF I don't recall anyone talking up our stumbling win over Ecuador as a great tactical triumph. One Becks strike from a dead ball & Ashley Cole's thigh were the difference between the two teams.

The problem isn't so much with 4-5-1 as with the personnel we employed. With Beckham in the team you have (arguably) the best striker of a football in the world game so the tendancy is always to look for the magical 60 yard ball to the lone front man (in this case Rooney) which pretty much by-passes our midfield at a stroke. Doing that doesn't play to Rooney's strength either; he's a much more dangerous proposition when he gets the ball deeper & can use his pace & strength to trouble defenders. 4-5-1 (or 4-4-1 I guess technically) looked to be most effecitve when we had Lennon & Crouch on instead of Beckham & Rooney.

What I do hold Sven responsible for is not dropping Lampard after the group games. He was clearly underperforming but, for whatever reason, the man who gambled on a 17 year old kid suddenly reverted to conservative type. He just could not bring himself to drop a "name" player. Contrast hat with the ruthlessness Scolari shows to his big names.

 

[marc71178]

To be honest, I didn't think we played the Ecuador game that badly, and Rooney certainly did his role extremely well, especially in the second half as he learned to pick his runs better.

 

[Cloete]

To be honest, I didn't think we played the Ecuador game that badly, and Rooney certainly did his role extremely well, especially in the second half as he learned to pick his runs better.

And the midfield picked not just to thump it long?

 

[BoyBrumby]

To be honest, I didn't think we played the Ecuador game that badly, and Rooney certainly did his role extremely well, especially in the second half as he learned to pick his runs better.

No, I agree Rooney did well in an unfamiliar role, but we still weren't playing to our best player's strengths. Hargreaves did servicably well at right-back, but again it's not his best position.

TBH I fully expect us to be playing some variety of 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 in our next game; Rooney's out for 2 games & Owen til March (at the earliest) so we aren't exactly shuffling with a full deck, striker-wise.

 

[Scaly piscine]

And the midfield picked not just to thump it long?

The thing is they'll always end up doing that, especially when you've got Beckham and Gerrard in midfield (and when fit Neville and Rio in defense). You cannot expect to change England players mindsets over the month or so they had in the England camp, half of the players will nearly always look for the long ball/hollywood pass first and short pass second and guys like Beckham will always drift inside because he wants to be on the ball all the time like Rooney and so will get frustrated and will then end up cutting inside and killing any space the midfield have. The England manager should be playing a formation that best suits the players and the way they play, not trying to impose his own brand of negativity on the side and hope the players can adapt to it in a month or so - because it won't and didn't work.

 

[Matteh]

With a manager that just kept it simple, 4-4-2 etc. England would have been ahead by that time and Rooney wouldn't have been so frustrated playing on his own and not seeing the ball for long periods so in all probably he wouldn't have got sent off either. But then you won't even accept that the vegetable cost England in 2004 so the blindingly obvious will probably pass you by here as well.

but with Crouch as the other forward - there would have been the long ball rubbish...
Rooney's temperment is hardly Sven's fault...
And the ref Meier cost England the win in 2004 with his shoddy display...