Ricky Ponting : Beginning of the End?

[Jono]

For a period of nearly 7 years (15th Aug 2001 to 25th May 2008) Ponting, in as many as 72 Test matches (20 more than Bradman's career tally) scored 7387 runs (again more than Bradman's career tally) at 0.3 of a run under 70 per innings and yet, because he has scored, in just 14 Tests, his runs at half a run under 40, we think its the beginning of the end.

This beats India's electronic news media's cricketing logic and trust me those guys take some beating.

Bit hyperbolic there.

No one is suggesting he's going to average sub-35 for the rest of his career.

 

[SJS]

i have voted "no" to this question of whether he is on a decline. you cant expect greats, all-time greats, to go down that easily. ponting is an all-time great and a real heavy weight among legendary batsmen of all-time.

my point in the earlier posts was that history is likely to remember lara and sachin more fondly than him. i am saying this because if he is not rated unanimously as the best of the era already then it is unlikely to happen from here on. whether sachin and ricky increase their average by 10 runs or lose it by 10 runs doesnt make any difference any more. their status in the annals of cricket history is already decided.

Hi.

I was not responding to what you have posted mate.

Coming to the subject matter, maybe Ponting is on the decline, who knows? But surely nothing has happened yet to indicate that there is a serious issue with his batting. Five Test matches ago missed by a solitary run scoring two separate hundreds against this very South African side. After that in the next four Tests he has two scores of over 80 and another over fifty.

We have this crazy thing to start such threads for players who are not too young. I am sure I could find similar 14 Test periods in Ponting's or many other great player's early careers too.

 

[G.I.Joe]

For a period of nearly 7 years (15th Aug 2001 to 25th May 2008) Ponting, in as many as 72 Test matches (20 more than Bradman's career tally) scored 7387 runs (again more than Bradman's career tally) at 0.3 of a run under 70 per innings and yet, because he has scored, in just 14 Tests, his runs at half a run under 40, we think its the beginning of the end.

This beats India's electronic news media's cricketing logic and trust me those guys take some beating.

Well, if people questioned him after he had averaged 39 over 72 tests, it wouldn't qualify as a judgement pronounced at the beginning of the end, would it? The qualification of the end with the word 'beginning' requires that one stick his neck out on the back of a small sample size rather than wait it out longer

 

[oldmancraigy]

5 tests coming up against a current pop-gun attack and 6 proposed test matches against Pakistan (who only have one good test bowler), I can't see Punter missing out there.

I dunno... his record in England isn't very good (for Ponting that is) - only 42 average.

Against Pakistan I'd suggest he'll feast - career average of 81.61 against them over the course of 10 tests (he even played against Waqar and Wasim)

 

[oitoitoi]

6 tests against Pakistan you say? Well if those actually happen, especially if they happen in Pakistan you can bet he'll rake in the double hundreds. His career record in England isn't great but if the summer isn't too wet he should really cash in against the joke attack of England at the roads of Lords, The Oval and Headingley. Cardiff will probably be pretty flat too.

When's Australia's next tour of Sri Lanka? That should be a pretty good test vs Mendis and Murali. When are they next playing India or SA (I know they've been playing a lot recently)?

 

[zaremba]

The Ponting-hate on this board is pretty amazing. Comparing him to Miandad?! Who next, Sehwag? Maybe someone here thinks Samaraweera > Ponting?

A person unfamiliar with cricket would think this Ponting guy averages like 50.5 with 27 centuries. Run-wise, he's the most successful cricketer of the modern era, and it surely must count for something?

Odd call, if I may say so Evermind. I rate Ponting extraordinarily highly as a batsman - above Tendulkar and therefore pretty much the best batsman of this generation - but Javed Miandad was an all-time great and no-one (except perhaps Sir Yawnald Bradyawn) should be insulted by being compared to him.

 

[ret]

I woudln't say Ponting is on a decline .... just that his purple patch is over, now he is playing normally .... to me he is an excellent batsmen who is good enough to average around 50 [not 60] and i guess he will probably be around that

 

[Evermind]

Odd call, if I may say so Evermind. I rate Ponting extraordinarily highly as a batsman - above Tendulkar and therefore pretty much the best batsman of this generation - but Javed Miandad was an all-time great and no-one (except perhaps Sir Yawnald Bradyawn) should be insulted by being compared to him.

Well, Miandad has 23 centuries in 189 innings, Ponting has 14 more in just 32 more innings. Miandad's away average is much lower, and he did very poorly against the best team of his time: against WI he averages 29.78.

The fact that he's a complete asshole and a piece of garbage might also have something to do with my prejudice, I suppose.

 

[Sanz]

Well, Miandad has 23 centuries in 189 innings, Ponting has 14 more in just 32 more innings. Miandad's away average is much lower, and he did very poorly against the best team of his time: against WI he averages 29.78.

Not saying that Miandad is better than Ponting but you talk as if Miandad is a tailender in comparison. Miandad has earned his right to be talked among best of the best, infact he was among the best in his era which is an achievment considering the best of his era involved players like Gavaskar, Richards and Greg Chappell.

 

[ret]

Well, Miandad has 23 centuries in 189 innings, Ponting has 14 more in just 32 more innings. Miandad's away average is much lower, and he did very poorly against the best team of his time: against WI he averages 29.78.

The fact that he's a complete asshole and a piece of garbage might also have something to do with my prejudice, I suppose.

So are you assuming that Ponting would have scored more than Miandad against WI .... It would be interesting to see how much Ponting has played and averaged against the best of Ambrose, Walsh, Akram, Waqar and Donald?

 

[JBH001]

Well, Miandad has 23 centuries in 189 innings, Ponting has 14 more in just 32 more innings. Miandad's away average is much lower, and he did very poorly against the best team of his time: against WI he averages 29.78.

The fact that he's a complete asshole and a piece of garbage might also have something to do with my prejudice, I suppose.

I think you should look a little further than the simple 29.78 against the WI.

Its true that over his career the WI were his bogey team, as was the case for many other batsmen, but (as Imran comments) in his autobiography, Miandad more than squared the ledger in the 87-88 series (Pak vs WI in WI) where he scored one hundred against Patterson, Ambrose, Walsh, and Benjamin at Bourda, and another hundred against Marshall, Ambrose, Benjamin, and Walsh at Queens Park Oval. Thus showing that he could make runs against top class WI pace on their home turf.

 

[bagapath]

Well, Miandad has 23 centuries in 189 innings, Ponting has 14 more in just 32 more innings. Miandad's away average is much lower, and he did very poorly against the best team of his time: against WI he averages 29.78.

In india, javed averaged 49 in 13 tests. Ricky averages 20 in 12 tests.

Anyways, my original point was, ricky would be rated higher than javed. but lower than lara and sachin. not saying whether it is also my choice or not (it is, if I have to say it clearly) but it is how I think history is going to remember him.

the greg chappell of the richards era and the ricky ponting of the sachin era both would have their fair share of fans but the majority is going to remember them as the second or third best of their respective times. and this is irrespective of whether ponting declines from here onwards or maintains his current stats till retirement.

 

[Pratters]

and this is irrespective of whether ponting declines from here onwards or maintains his current stats till retirement.

I don't agree. If Ponting ends up with an average of 56 or 2-3 points ahead of Tendulkar, a lot of people are going to rate Ponting higher.

 

[bagapath]

I don't agree. If Ponting ends up with an average of 56 or 2-3 points ahead of Tendulkar, a lot of people are going to rate Ponting higher.

javed averaged 2 runs more than richards and border. and one run more than gavaskar. 52 in his time is the 58 of these times.

g.chappell averaged a clear 3 runs more than richards. and scored the same 24 centuries in 29 less innings. how many remember him as the best batter of his time? and compare that figure with how many remember richards as the best of his time.

beyond a certain limit, i would say 5000 runs and 50+ average, the stats dont work all the time in choosing the best from the gems.

 

[Pratters]

javed averaged 2 runs more than richards and border. and one run more than gavaskar. 52 in his time is the 58 of these times.

g.chappell averaged a clear 3 runs more than richards. and scored the same 24 centuries in 29 less innings. how many remember him as the best batter of his time? and compare that figure how many remember richards as the best of his time.

beyond a certain limit, i would say 5000 runs and 50+ average, the stats dont work all the time in choosing the best from the gems.

Good points all. Thanks. Richard's average does see people questioning him but more often than not more people regard him better than a Miandad or Greg Chappell.

 

[Anil]

The fact that he's a complete asshole and a piece of garbage might also have something to do with my prejudice, I suppose.

agreed but he was also a tremendous batsman, an exceptional pressure player and he did play very well in his last series in the windies(made two hundreds if i recall)...he is still the greatest batsman pakistan has produced so far and all all-time great....

 

[Jono]

javed averaged 2 runs more than richards and border. and one run more than gavaskar. 52 in his time is the 58 of these times.

g.chappell averaged a clear 3 runs more than richards. and scored the same 24 centuries in 29 less innings. how many remember him as the best batter of his time? and compare that figure with how many remember richards as the best of his time.

beyond a certain limit, i would say 5000 runs and 50+ average, the stats dont work all the time in choosing the best from the gems.

Yeah good post.

 

[wfdu_ben91]

His past his peak, obviously. There is not much else he can acchieve in the game, TBH. He doesn't cash-in at every opportunity possible anymore but the runs that he does make are valuable ones and he makes them when the team desperately needs them.

He may only be averaging in the low 40's but his innings' of 123 vs India, 101 & 99 vs SA @ MCG and 83 in Johannasburg on a minefield when Australia were in dire straits are as good as you will ever see.

 

[Burpmybelly]

His past his peak, obviously. There is not much else he can acchieve in the game, TBH. He doesn't cash-in at every opportunity possible anymore but the runs that he does make are valuable ones and he makes them when the team desperately needs them.

He may only be averaging in the low 40's but his innings' of 123 vs India, 101 & 99 vs SA @ MCG and 83 in Johannasburg on a minefield when Australia were in dire straits are as good as you will ever see.

Perhaps the small thing of captaining Australia to an Ashes win in England, and a series win in India.