Religious comments by Ahmed Shehzad to Dilshan

[smash84]

If a Buddhist cricketer tried to convert a Muslim player while in Pakistan then there could be a 'security threat' against the Buddhist cricketer if the media blew the incident out of proportion. After all, there appears to be no shortage of excitable zealots willing to go crazy at the thought of apostasy, or an infidel stomping on their sacred turf.

Viriya probably isn't right, but he could be.

so you think that because of an outside chance that if a buddhist cricketer tried to convert a muslim player to Islam all hell could break loose so none of the teams are visiting Pakistan?

 

[watson]

so you think that because of an outside chance that if a buddhist cricketer tried to convert a muslim player to Islam all hell could break loose so none of the teams are visiting Pakistan?

While it is not the only consideration, violence motivated by religion would certainly be a consideration by touring parties would it not?

 

[brockley]

Are we talking of the some Buddhists who rape,pillage and burn muslims in Burma?

 

[watson]

Are we talking of the some Buddhists who rape,pillage and burn muslims in Burma?

Burma doesn't play cricket, so Burma is a non issue.

(But you do indadvertedly reinforce the general point again.)

 

[smash84]

While it is not the only consideration, violence motivated by religion would certainly be a consideration by touring parties would it not?

ONLY if proselytization is on the agenda of the touring teams. Although i don't know of any cricket teams that visited any country for the explicit (or even implicit) purpose of getting people to convert. There are lots of organizations for that sort of thing and cricket teams is not one of them. So NO, hell no, it won't be a consideration by any of the touring parties.

 

[brockley]

Its interesting read a book about near deaath expereinces,sone expperienced a heaven like expereince,some a hell like experience,and some floating above the bed,some,some going through a tunnel some going to a light.So the subject of Hell is 1 that cannot be discounted.Just talking on a theologigal and experiential level.

 

[watson]

Its interesting read a book about near deaath expereinces,sone expperienced a heaven like expereince,some a hell like experience,and some floating above the bed,some,some going through a tunnel some going to a light.So the subject of Hell is 1 that cannot be discounted.Just talking on a theologigal and experiential level.

It is possible that NDEs are an indicator of either heaven or hell as they are a facinating and well documented part of the human experience. However, I'm still going to apply Occam's Razor and assume a more mundane biological explanation despite the relevant science being in its infancy;

Surge of neurophysiological coherence and connectivity in the dying brain

......NDE represents a biological paradox that challenges our un- derstanding of the brain and has been advocated as evidence for life after death and for a noncorporeal basis of human conscious- ness (39–42), based on the unsupported belief that the brain cannot possibly be the source of highly vivid and lucid conscious experiences during clinical death (9, 12). By presenting evidence of highly organized brain activity and neurophysiologic features consistent with conscious processing at near-death, we now provide a scientific framework to begin to explain the highly lucid and realer-than-real mental experiences reported by near-death survivors.

http://www.pnas.org/content/110/35/14432.full.pdf

Light at the end of the tunnel for scientists studying near-death experiences

Stories of out of body experiences and seeing lights at the end of a tunnel have been told by people brought back from the brink since the days of Plato.

Now, for the first time, scientists say they have observed brain activity in dying rats that may shed light on the mystery of human near death experiences.

Researchers at the University of Michigan analysed the electrical signals in the brains of nine anaesthetised rats undergoing an induced cardiac arrest and saw activity patterns they said were associated with "a hyper-alerted state" shortly after clinical death.

Near death experiences (NDEs), which the study's authors said were reported by 20 per cent of cardiac arrest survivors, are commonly cited as evidence of an afterlife or the separation of the body and the soul - but scientists have increasingly been able to attribute people's experiences to physiological processes and now believe they result from unusual brain activity caused by reduced blood flow to the brain.

Patients commonly report seeing a tunnel and a light, or a sensation of being outside one's own body, often with a sense of calm and inner peace.

"This study, performed in animals, is the first dealing with what happens to the neurophysiological state of the dying brain," said the study's lead author Dr Jimo Borjigin. "We reasoned that if near-death experience stems from brain activity, neural correlates of consciousness should be identifiable in humans or animals even after the cessation of cerebral blood flow."

However, the scientists were surprised by the high level of gamma frequency brain activity they observed, noting that "at near death, many known electrical signatures of consciousness exceeded levels found in the waking state, suggesting the brain is capable of well-organised electrical activity during the early stage of clinical death."

Experts in the UK said that, while the results were intriguing, there was no way of knowing whether the activity observed in the rats was the same that produced the near death experience phenomenon in humans.

"The paper has merely shown - and the authors are extremely clear on this point - that they have demonstrated the change in gamma oscillations occurring over a similar time period to when NDEs are experienced in humans," said Dr David McGonigle, of Cardiff University's school of psychology. "We have no idea what the rats experience - if anything - while the increase in synchronous gamma occurs."

Doubts have also been raised over the researchers' claims that the signals observed in the dying brains of the rats were similar to a conscious state. Dr McGonigle said that scientist were still "at loggerheads" over what consciousness means, both in humans and in animals.

Dr Anders Sandberg, a neuroscientist and research fellow at Oxford University's Future of Humanity Institute said that neither the findings, nor common stories of near death experiences in humans, should be interpreted as evidence of "life after death".

"A lot of the neural networks in the brain can stimulate themselves without any external signals under the right conditions… oxygen deprivation can certainly mess up many systems at the same time…" he said. "So it could be that during a NDE, the conditions make neurons start to fire and form patterns of activity. These patterns of activity are shaped by how the brain is connected, and we know that some patterns in the visual cortex seem to closely correspond to commonly reported hallucinations (like tunnels). Higher order parts of the brain might create emotions or ideas in a similar random fashion, populating the experience."

Light at the end of the tunnel for scientists studying near-death experiences - Science - News - The Independent

 

[viriya]

Nah he's right. The reason no-one is touring Pakistan has absolutely nothing to do with the security threat and everything to do with the fact that they wouldn't be able to get away with converting players to Buddhism on the field. It's a well-known fact.

The point is that anything similar would not be written of so easily in Pakistan. The reason no one is touring is because of the security threat which is related to how there is a possibility of violence if a similar incident was to occur (given that the SL bus was shot at even without something like that happening)..

Dilshan is converted to Buddhism (it's debatable but he at least changed his name), and afaik converting from Islam can be considered a death sentence in some countries.

 

[Dan]

Nah he's right. The reason no-one is touring Pakistan has absolutely nothing to do with the security threat and everything to do with the fact that they wouldn't be able to get away with converting players to Buddhism on the field. It's a well-known fact.

Yeah, everyone knows that the SLC is just a front for Big Buddha, proselytising instead of actually playing cricket. It's why they've never produced any decent fast bowlers aside from Vaas -- they're picked based on how faithful they are, not their ability to bowl. And it's pretty obvious that batsmen feel a greater need to be at peace with the world, at least when Mitchell Johnson is bowling at their faces.

FMD, they're not exactly coached by the Dalai Lama. I don't think converting people is high on their list of priorities while on a cricket tour, even making the assumption that Sri Lankans are a monolithic devout Buddhist group of people.

 

[Dan]

As an aside, this isn't a thread to debate the merits of religion or whether they're true. You've done that plenty of times in OT, watson, and nobody wants to read three trillion articles vaguely related to religion when they're in a thread to discuss cricket. I understand that you were responding to another post, so to everyone else, if you want to post theologically, do it elsewhere.

Create a(nother) religion thread in Off Topic if need be. It's not a topic for CC.

 

[smash84]

Yeah, everyone knows that the SLC is just a front for Big Buddha, proselytising instead of actually playing cricket. It's why they've never produced any decent fast bowlers aside from Vaas -- they're picked based on how faithful they are, not their ability to bowl. And it's pretty obvious that batsmen feel a greater need to be at peace with the world, at least when Mitchell Johnson is bowling at their faces.

FMD, they're not exactly coached by the Dalai Lama. I don't think converting people is high on their list of priorities while on a cricket tour, even making the assumption that Sri Lankans are a monolithic devout Buddhist group of people.

 

[Hurricane]

Yeah, everyone knows that the SLC is just a front for Big Buddha, proselytising instead of actually playing cricket. It's why they've never produced any decent fast bowlers aside from Vaas -- they're picked based on how faithful they are, not their ability to bowl. And it's pretty obvious that batsmen feel a greater need to be at peace with the world, at least when Mitchell Johnson is bowling at their faces.

FMD, they're not exactly coached by the Dalai Lama. I don't think converting people is high on their list of priorities while on a cricket tour, even making the assumption that Sri Lankans are a monolithic devout Buddhist group of people.

The entire thread is barely related to cricket chat.

 

[brockley]

Och Aye.

 

[Hurricane]

I was enjoying discussing hell as well.

 

[Maximas]

To hell with that topic of discussion

 

[Hurricane]

 

[Agent Nationaux]

Shehzad does have an attitude problem, is a hot head and has gotten into trouble for it before.

 

[Migara]

Shezad tried his antics on a relatively cool player. Should have suggested it to Randiv for a change. He would have met his equal at being a prick.

 

[Hurricane]

Shezad tried his antics on a relatively cool player. Should have suggested it to Randiv for a change. He would have met his equal at being a prick.

Is Randiv a prick or a borderline prick - I seem to recall you said he was just on the side of goodness a year ago and that only when provoked would cross the line?

 

[Migara]

Is Randiv a prick or a borderline prick - I seem to recall you said he was just on the side of goodness a year ago and that only when provoked would cross the line?

I don't think Shezad is a massive prick compared to some of the illustrous names. But this antic defies the logic. And yes Randiv is not bad, but this wou have been enough for some ugly verbal exchange.