Coronis
International Coach
More importantly he has a much more balanced record against more teams in more countries.
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Ray Lindwall vs Everton Weekes
- Thread starter Archer6K
- Start date
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Just to go on about Lindwall’s record in WI, it should be noted that pitches were total flat. Over the entire series the batting average was 41.59. Lindwall strike rate of 52 stands out.
BazBall21
International Captain
That seals this one for me. The argument against Lindwall is he did play in a very bowler-friendly era. But he did pretty well in flat WI while Weekes has a dodgy record away from home.
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Today I learned that David Murray who was WI's wicket keeper in the pre Dujon era was Weekes' son.
Patience and Accuracy+Gut
State Vice-Captain
Also to note, Lindwall took 78 wickets at 19 in 1940s when pitches were batting friendly. Plus missed few really good years due to War.
Perspective varies enormously depending on age and where one resides in the world. Our friends in the Caribbean may correct me but my impression is that many Barbadians, Sobers included, have regarded Weekes as the greatest West Indian batsman. Thousands who watched the Lancashire League in the 1950s would agree. Bradman thought he was better than Headley. Fingleton was another big fan.
Weekes scored fast, and when set there was a certain inevitability about a big score. In England in 1950 he reeled off four double hundreds and a triple. England's bowlers felt they got off lightly by keeping him to an average of 56 in the Tests with the aid of a run out..
But the failures in Australia in 1951-52 and England in 1957 cannot be brushed under the carpet. Both series were played in bowler-friendly conditions (Harvey and Morris had similar records to Weekes in 1951-52 and Walcott's was worse), the 1957 tourists were divided and poorly managed, and Weekes wasn't fully fit on either tour. But a batsman of his class should have scored more runs in both series. Trueman said Worrell had the best technique of the Three Ws and was hardest to dismiss on bowlers' pitches. Admittedly they were good friends.
Like several writers of the time Jack Fingleton claimed to ignore stats. He was paid to watch matches and judge what he saw, not to sit at home poring over scorecards. But he did highlight Weekes' weakness against Lindwall's bouncers in Australia. In fact Weekes achieved so little there that the opinions of both Fingleton and Bradman must have been influenced by watching him elsewhere. Both spent time in England during the 1950s.
Nowadays there seems to be something of a consensus that Weekes ranks outside the top four West Indian batsmen and perhaps lower than that. But this opinion is still not likely to apply everywhere.
Weekes scored fast, and when set there was a certain inevitability about a big score. In England in 1950 he reeled off four double hundreds and a triple. England's bowlers felt they got off lightly by keeping him to an average of 56 in the Tests with the aid of a run out..
But the failures in Australia in 1951-52 and England in 1957 cannot be brushed under the carpet. Both series were played in bowler-friendly conditions (Harvey and Morris had similar records to Weekes in 1951-52 and Walcott's was worse), the 1957 tourists were divided and poorly managed, and Weekes wasn't fully fit on either tour. But a batsman of his class should have scored more runs in both series. Trueman said Worrell had the best technique of the Three Ws and was hardest to dismiss on bowlers' pitches. Admittedly they were good friends.
Like several writers of the time Jack Fingleton claimed to ignore stats. He was paid to watch matches and judge what he saw, not to sit at home poring over scorecards. But he did highlight Weekes' weakness against Lindwall's bouncers in Australia. In fact Weekes achieved so little there that the opinions of both Fingleton and Bradman must have been influenced by watching him elsewhere. Both spent time in England during the 1950s.
Nowadays there seems to be something of a consensus that Weekes ranks outside the top four West Indian batsmen and perhaps lower than that. But this opinion is still not likely to apply everywhere.
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Coronis
International Coach
Varies of course as to how you define an ATG
BazBall21
International Captain
I'm looser with it than the average person on here tbh. Each to their own.
Agree with Kanhai in Tier 2. Would also place Lloyd there. Better against fast bowling than the others in that group.
Would promote Fredericks and Haynes and possibly Rowe.
George Challenor, founder of the Barbados batting school, might be worth a mention.
kyear2
International Coach
Richie after GCG, ahead of Hunte
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
It's mostly fair; but Haynes is ranked too low here
Lindwall's omission from the fifth Test in South Africa in 1950 remains a mystery. He had taken 12 wickets at 20 in the previous four matches.
Invited to say that Lindwall was injured or ill, tour manager and selector 'Chappie' Dwyer replied "He has just been omitted and Noblet included."
The Australian press therefore reported that he had been dropped and this remained the official line, repeated in John Ringwood's biography of Lindwall in 1995. The attempted justification was that he had put on weight and lost pace.
The truth may have been more bizarre. Rumours later circulated that skipper Hassett, 3-0 up in the series, in a gesture of goodwill in keeping with his quirky personality, agreed with opposite number Nourse to allow South Africa's batsmen some respite by leaving Lindwall out.
If true it is likely to be unprecedented. Does anyone know any more about this?
Invited to say that Lindwall was injured or ill, tour manager and selector 'Chappie' Dwyer replied "He has just been omitted and Noblet included."
The Australian press therefore reported that he had been dropped and this remained the official line, repeated in John Ringwood's biography of Lindwall in 1995. The attempted justification was that he had put on weight and lost pace.
The truth may have been more bizarre. Rumours later circulated that skipper Hassett, 3-0 up in the series, in a gesture of goodwill in keeping with his quirky personality, agreed with opposite number Nourse to allow South Africa's batsmen some respite by leaving Lindwall out.
If true it is likely to be unprecedented. Does anyone know any more about this?
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Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Davo > Hoggard > Lillee
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
I've generally considered Weekes to be the best of the three Ws due both to his overall Test record and the fact that he by all accounts was reminiscent of Bradman in his ability to relentlessly attack the bowling and do so successfully enough to consistently rack up big scores. In recent years I've wavered on that, due to Walcott's incredible mid-'50s peak and the fact that big Clyde was held back in the early parts of his career by having to take on the burden of 'keeping as well.
Interestingly, Ron Archer (one of the great "what-ifs?" of Australian cricket, if you're not familiar with him) rated the three best players of his time to be Peter May, Neil Harvey and Everton Weekes. Archer played only one series against the West Indies, in the Caribbean in 1955, and while Weekes did well it was Walcott who was in God-mode there. So Weekes' general level and style of play must have left a real impression on Archer.
Interestingly, Ron Archer (one of the great "what-ifs?" of Australian cricket, if you're not familiar with him) rated the three best players of his time to be Peter May, Neil Harvey and Everton Weekes. Archer played only one series against the West Indies, in the Caribbean in 1955, and while Weekes did well it was Walcott who was in God-mode there. So Weekes' general level and style of play must have left a real impression on Archer.