Ravichandran Ashwin vs Bob Willis

[subshakerz]

What about Willis' negligible match impact outside ENG and NZ?

Better than Ashwin in SENA.

 

[subshakerz]

Willis outside ENG and NZ (the only 2 countries he was good)
42 matches 121 wkts (WPM=2.88)
Ashwin outside Asia:
32 matches 118 wkts (WPM=3.69)

Not to mention that Willis in NZ, ENG vs Ashwin in SC is a mismatch in favour of Ashwin

Exclude WI for Ashwin.

 

[kyear2]

ChatGPT got too much Subs and Kyear in it, sad to see.

Oh wow, how did I get involved in this?

 

[capt_Luffy]

Oh wow, how did I get involved in this?

You made multiple comments here, just no one really bothered to reply

 

[Thala_0710]

Exclude WI for Ashwin.

Why though? And even if you do, it becomes slightly worse than Willis' record on much worse pitches for him. And as I said, Ashwin's record in SC vs Bedser in ENG/NZ is one sided.
A WPM of 2.88 for a frontline pacer is actually pretty poor when you think about it

 

[kyear2]

You made multiple comments here, just no one really bothered to reply

Don't know why you are now either tbh.

Carry on.

 

[Thala_0710]

Just for the record, the batting equivalent of Ashwin is Williamson and not Warner

 

[kyear2]

I recall an interview I saw with the Master Blaster last year (originated years ago obviously), where he was asked about the best bowlers of his era.

He said for his all round record everywhere, his pace and skill, Maco, think the words he used was not only being able to perform in his own back yard, could be wrong.

He said best test opponent, Lillee

When pressed for a second name, it was Bob Willis.

He's an often forgotten but genuine test great.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Just for the record, the batting equivalent of Ashwin is Williamson and not Warner

I would argue more like Walcott

 

[kyear2]

And neither Walcott not Williamson are ATGs

 

[Thala_0710]

And neither Walcott not Williamson are ATGs

Ashwin isnt ATG for me either, but Willis isn't close

 

[DrWolverine]

 

[subshakerz]

Why though? And even if you do, it becomes slightly worse than Willis' record on much worse pitches for him. And as I said, Ashwin's record in SC vs Bedser in ENG/NZ is one sided.
A WPM of 2.88 for a frontline pacer is actually pretty poor when you think about it

Your criteria for excluding NZ was that Willis did well there. Ok then exclude WI for Ashwin.

Stop trying to coverup Ashwin mediocrity in SENA. It gets tiresome.

 

[Thala_0710]

Your criteria for excluding NZ was that Willis did well there. Ok then exclude WI for Ashwin.

Stop trying to coverup Ashwin mediocrity in SENA. It gets tiresome.

Ashwin was bad in SENA, but so was Willis everywhere bar ENG and NZ, meanwhile Ashwin was great in IND, SL, BAN and WI to a much higher level than Bedser's strengths. Ashwin at least had very non spin friendly surfaces in SENA, Bedser doesn't even have that excuse

 

[Johan]

Why though? And even if you do, it becomes slightly worse than Willis' record on much worse pitches for him. And as I said, Ashwin's record in SC vs Bedser in ENG/NZ is one sided.
A WPM of 2.88 for a frontline pacer is actually pretty poor when you think about it

not a very good approach, first and foremost, West Indies is spin friendly, look at Nikita Miller's numbers in the Carribean domestic cricket. Secondly, their batting has been borderline club standard for a while now, no offense to them, but their batting is garbage while New Zealand, especially in 84, had much better batting.

Willis outside New Zealand/England

79 innings, 121 wkts @ 28.2, 55 strike rate and 5 fifers

Ashwin in SENA

44 innings, 72 wkts @ 39.5, 84 strike rate and 0 fifers

call me old fashioned but I feel like those averages and strike rates and number of fifers actually mean something.

Ashwin's argument is being superior in SC to Willis anywhere, don't try to bullshit yourself into believing they are relative outside of their comfort zone, they are not.

 

[subshakerz]

Ashwin was bad in SENA, but so was Willis everywhere bar ENG and NZ, meanwhile Ashwin was great in IND, SL, BAN and WI to a much higher level than Bedser's strengths. Ashwin at least had very non spin friendly surfaces in SENA, Bedser doesn't even have that excuse

Willis wasn't bad in Aus and Ind. Respectable returns.

 

[Johan]

lol, TIL Willis was not good anywhere outside England and New Zealand but averages under 30 everywhere bar West Indies where he barely played, guess there's no beating intellectual dishonesty

 

[Thala_0710]

not a very good approach, first and foremost, West Indies is spin friendly, look at Nikita Miller's numbers in the Carribean domestic cricket. Secondly, their batting has been borderline club standard for a while now, no offense to them, but their batting is garbage while New Zealand, especially in 84, had much better batting.

Willis outside New Zealand/England

79 innings, 121 wkts @ 28.2, 55 strike rate and 5 fifers

Ashwin in SENA

44 innings, 72 wkts @ 39.5, 84 strike rate and 0 fifers

call me old fashioned but I feel like those averages and strike rates and number of fifers actually mean something.

Ashwin's argument is being superior in SC to Willis anywhere, don't try to bullshit yourself into believing they are relative outside of their comfort zone, they are not.

I'm not saying Ashwin and Willis are at a similar level outside their comfort zones, Ashwin is bad but Willis is very poor too, despite playing on much more helpful surfaces. The WPM comments were i reply to @subshakerz argument of Ashwin's pretty 28 avg in ENG but low impact as reflected in his WPM.
This is a point I actually agree with, but this applies a lot to Willis too. His avg of 28.2 looks good, but a WPM of 2.88 is bad too for a frontline pacer. Sure Willis might be better than Ashwin there, but he didn't have a great impact here either. A bit more but that's it, whilst Ashwin is one of the greatest match winners ever in SC conditions

 

[Johan]

I'm not saying Ashwin and Bedser are at a similar level outside their comfort zones, Ashwin is bad but Bedser is very poor too, despite playing on much more helpful surfaces. The WPM comments were i reply to @subshakerz argument of Ashwin's pretty 28 avg in ENG but low impact as reflected in his WPM.
This is a point I actually agree with, but this applies a lot to Bedser too. His avg of 28.2 looks good, but a WPM of 2.88 is bad too for a frontline pacer. Sure Bedser might be better than Ashwin there, but he didn't have a great impact here either. A bit more but that's it, whilst Ashwin is one of the greatest match winners ever in SC conditions

Bedser???

 

[Thala_0710]

Bedser???

My mistake