Ranking the Batsmen

[aussie tragic]

Hanif was one of the best of his time.

Yeah, I just did a bit more reading and found that once again stats don't always show the full picture. So, disregard my suggestion to drop Mohammad

 

[oz_fan]

Add:
Clive Lloyd
WG Grace
Kanhai

Remove:
Bill Brown
Bill Woodfull
Dean Jones

IMO Hanif should stay.

Not really sure about Merchant or Barry Richards. It depends on whether people are going to vote purely on test match performances.

 

[adharcric]

Hanif was one of the best of his time.

Also, Yousuf's stats:

Tests: 5737 runs @ 53.12
ODI: 7580 runs @ 41.19

He is very good, but not quite good enough to make it here. The stats are inflated just like Sehwag's are. Think of it this way - would you take Yousuf over Hanif, Hazare or Trumper? He's got better stats than all three, but I wouldn't.

 

[adharcric]

On Trumper, Merchant and Richards ... stats don't mean everything for guys like these. Trumper was rated as perhaps the greatest Aussie bar Bradman. Merchant was rated very highly by his contemporaries - even the likes of Bedser, Bradman, etc. Same for Richards.

 

[nightprowler10]

Didn't mean take him in based on stats, but he should be ahead of Dean Jones. Also, not fair to compare him to Sehwag IMO. He's had some very good innings on some not so good batting tracks.

 

[Perm]

I still think there should be some sort of innings limit and that Merchant, Richards and Pollock should miss out because they have not played enough Test cricket to be considered.

 

[adharcric]

Well I took out Jones, Woodfull and Brown so far.
Sorry but I can't get myself to take out Merchant, Richards and Trumper. When other all-time greats rate them so highly, it means a lot.
For anyone from 1960 onwards, playing lots of test matches is necessary. We can make exceptions for some legends from earlier times IMO.
After all, W.G. Grace doesn't have a great test record but he's in there because he is legendary and was considered the best in his time.

 

[Perm]

Grace played enough international cricket to be judged, just like Trumper his numbers don't reflect how good he was. Richards, Pollock and Merchant are all "what ifs?" because they didn't get enough test cricket to prove themselves and therefore can't really be judged accurately. I know all three are great batsman but to me they didnt pass the ultimate test of suceeding at teset level for a sustained period of time.

 

[adharcric]

Grace played enough international cricket to be judged, just like Trumper his numbers don't reflect how good he was. Richards, Pollock and Merchant are all "what ifs?" because they didn't get enough test cricket to prove themselves and therefore can't really be judged accurately. I know all three are great batsman but to me they didnt pass the ultimate test of suceeding at teset level for a sustained period of time.

I see your point, but I still think we can go by what their contemporaries said about them and not just their records. Quite like we do when we rate Dennis Lillee so highly. Also, I know many people on here that would put Pollock, Merchant and Richards in their top ten or fifteen all-time. The fact that they didn't play at the highest level goes against them, but it doesn't take them out of the top 50 IMO. Sorry if I'm being a stubborn ass but I just can't leave them out.

 

[Perm]

True, they would be in the top 50 batsman of all time but I'm still a little uneasy about people comparing them to guys who have played at international level and suceeded but may not have been lauded as a great.

 

[aussie tragic]

Sorry but I can't get myself to take out Merchant, Richards and Trumper. When other all-time greats rate them so highly, it means a lot.

Just imagine if Hick never qualified to play for England, can I assume that he would then be in the top 50 batsmen list with Merchant and Barry Richards

People were raving about how great Hick was, however he was found out very quickly when he did get the chance at test level (in fact he was first worked out when he played a season of Shield in Aus).

 

[adharcric]

Just imagine if Hick never qualified to play for England, can I assume that he would then be in the top 50 batsmen list with Merchant and Barry Richards

People were raving about how great Hick was, however he was found out very quickly when he did get the chance at test level (in fact he was first worked out when he played a season of Shield in Aus).

There's a difference. Hick had every opportunity at the highest level and he was found out. Guys from the past didn't get those opportunities and we can only judge them by how they did in the opportunities that they got, keeping in mind which era they come from.

 

[oz_fan]

I see your point, but I still think we can go by what their contemporaries said about them and not just their records. Quite like we do when we rate Dennis Lillee so highly. Also, I know many people on here that would put Pollock, Merchant and Richards in their top ten or fifteen all-time. The fact that they didn't play at the highest level goes against them, but it doesn't take them out of the top 50 IMO. Sorry if I'm being a stubborn ass but I just can't leave them out.

I agree. I think they should at least be left in to give people a chance to vote for them. I'm pretty sure that Graeme Pollock will make the top 25. And like adharcric said stats don't tell the full story and we can also take into account others opinions of them.

 

[nightprowler10]

Clive Lloyd ahead of Ricky Ponting

 

[aussie tragic]

You've now got 52 batsmen on the list, good luck trying to trim 2 from that group

btw, I'd go Kirsten and Merchent unless someone can explain why he only played 10 tests?

 

[adharcric]

Uhh yeah I need you guys' opinion on this one. Need to trim two, these are the guys I'm targetting (some are there because I'm ignorant about them, so forgive me if there's some blasphemy):

Bob Simpson, Bill Lawry, Arthur Morris, Ted Dexter, Peter May, Saeed Anwar, Gary Kirsten, Rohan Kanhai

EDIT: Kirsten will go, I guess.

 

[oz_fan]

Uhh yeah I need you guys' opinion on this one. Need to trim two, these are the guys I'm targetting (some are there because I'm ignorant about them, so forgive me if there's some blasphemy):

Bob Simpson, Bill Lawry, Arthur Morris, Ted Dexter, Peter May, Saeed Anwar, Gary Kirsten, Rohan Kanhai

EDIT: Kirsten will go, I guess.

I think Anwar and Kirsten.

 

[nightprowler10]

Kirsten and Gilly.

 

[adharcric]

Gilly gone unless someone speaks up soon.

 

[aussie tragic]

Gilly or Anwar, then?

Anwar to go.

Gilchrist: 85 tests, 5124 runs @ 48.80, 16 centuries (100 every 7.7 innings)
Anwar: 55 tests, 4052 runs @ 45.52, 11 centuries (100 every 8.3 innings)