Ranking England's Post-War Spinners

[Line and Length]

The thread regarding Jacob Bethell and where he will rank discusses the rating of a number of spinners. The conversation mentions Ali and Leach and whether they are in the best 10 modern spinners. The consensus among CW members would have Laker at number one but, interestingly, other articles have the top three as Underwood, Swann and then Laker.
In 2013 bleacherreport.com listed their all-time top 10 English spinners as Underwood, Swann, Laker, Lock, Titmus, Emburey, Verity, Giles, Rhodes and Edmonds with honorable mentions to Allen, Illingworth and Tufnell.
In 2020 Sportsmole listed their Top Five Post War England spinners as Underwood, Swann, Laker, Lock and Panesar edging out Ali.
My personal Top Ten would be Laker, Underwood, Wardle, Swann, Lock, Titmus, Appleyard, Allen, Tattersall and Illingworth. Most of these are pre Warne and Murali - probably because that stellar pair are so far ahead of other spinners of the time that I tend to overlook other spinners of that era and later.
I'd be interested in the views of others.

 

[Ali TT]

I don't think I can really give much of a view of English spinners in the immediate post-war era. Feels like a completely different era in the English game.

It's also hard in my lifetime as so few English spinners have had what I'd call "complete careers". Leach, Panesar and Tufnell were all inconsistent selections for various reasons while Giles was used in a very particular way by Fletcher to back up a 4-seam attack. Even Swann only played 60 matches but at least he did rack up 255 wickets.

Moeen doesn't necessarily rank as a better pound-for-pound spinner than any of those but his output is even more remarkable given where he started from. I think when picked he was a top-order limited over batter for Worcs and bits and pieces in county cricket, bowling second fiddle usually (I think Worcs had an overseas pro spinner at the time - Ajmal?). He bowled something like 10 overs an innings on average and, bar one big match haul on a bunsen, very rarely picked up more than a couple of wickets an innings. In another reality, he could've easily gone down the Hales/Roy route and become a top tier limited over international opener but I think it's pretty obvious he sacrificed his batting, which was his prime strength in the early part of his career, to develop into the test spinning role. That he took 200 wickets and helped England win quite a few test matches with his arm would not have been obvious back in 2014, even if his average is pretty modest.

So of those six, my ranking would be Swann, Mo, Panesar, Giles, Tuffers, Leach. I appreciate we assess primarily on test cricket, but across all formats, I'd put Rashid second behind Swann.

 

[Yeoman]

In my time following cricket (since 1987), I would rank Swann as clearly the best English spinner, with Panesar second. Ali is a curious case. When he first came into test cricket, many of his wickets were through batsmen underestimating him and going for overly-aggressive shots. By around 2017 he had become a better spinner who got his wickets in more orthodox ways, before he regressed again.

For the earlier period, I am reliant on reports and footage. I am inclined to rate Underwood above Laker. Laker has a very strong statistical record however this is enhanced by his bowling on helpful home wickets.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

It isn't up for debate, it's Underwood. Even allowing for some of the messed up wicket he played on at home, the man was solid everywhere vs everyone, with the notable exception of the WI. But that's ok, even the two GoATs have places and oppostion they sucked against. And even sucking vs WI, Derek did help bowl England to a series win vs us in 1969 I think it was.

 

[kevinw]

I think had Mo not bowled some pretty decent off spin, he wouldn't have been much of an international cricketer. He would've got a call up based on his batting, I'm sure, but I'm not sure he'd have made stacks of runs. Probably a dozen tests, possibly some more shorter form games but with averages that would have seen him replaced.

 

[Line and Length]

Bob Appleyard is a case of "what might have been" had illness and injury not curtailed his cricket career.
In his youth he was diagnosed with TB and had the upper half of his left lung removed. He debuted for Yorkshire in 1950, playing 3 games and then, in 1951 he took over 200 wickets at an average of about 14. After one match in 1952 he suffered a chronic illness which saw him miss the rest of the season and all of the 1953 season. Even at the beginning of 1954 he wasn't expected to play but he made a surprising recovery and finished second in the county averages behind Brian Statham. That year, aged 30, he made his Test debut against Pakistan, taking 5 wickets in the first innings. Wisden wrote, "His mixture of in-swingers, off-spinners and leg-cutters; his variations of flight and pace, bore the make of a highly-skilled craftsman." In all he played 9 Tests, including 5 against Australia of which 4 were away from home. In those 9 Tests he took 31 wickets at an average of 17.87 . In 1955 a knee injury kept him out for half the season. He played his final Test in 1956 but, in 1957, he lost form and played his last FC game in 1958. His FC bowling stats (708 @ 15.48) speak volumes of his ability over a relatively short career.

 

[vicleggie]

Geez, Moeen Ali has 200 test wickets? England sure do play a LOT of test cricket,

He was 3/4 of a quality Test spinner. More than an odi bowler, could genuinely take wickets, but not often enough. Very handy batting record to make up for it, though.