Rahul Dravid vs Ricky Ponting

[twctopcat]

Your theories about Ponting are so utterly bizarre. You realise that if he, say, repeated what he has done for the past 48 months twice more and then retired (leaving him a bit younger at retirement as Steve Waugh, with only 9 more tests), he would finish with 15021 runs @ 59.61 with 49 centuries...

But that's extremely unlikely, like saying Strauss will end up with 30+ centuries and 10000 runs no-one really knows. Will be fun seeing if Ponting does though!!

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

But that's extremely unlikely, like saying Strauss will end up with 30+ centuries and 10000 runs no-one really knows. Will be fun seeing if Ponting does though!!

I'm not actually saying that he will, simply saying that given the way he has played in the last few years it is possible, and apparently even then TEC wouldn't consider him a great.

 

[a massive zebra]

WHY, OH WHY, DID I HAVE TO DO A TYPO WHEN I CREATED MY USERNAME

If you e-mail james.nixon@cricketweb.net he can correct it for you.

 

[marc71178]

In that 'bad patch', tendulkar's record is this:

Matches 17
Innings:28
Not Out: 5
Total Runs: 1168
Ave: 50.78
HS: 241*
C: 3
F: 4

Yeah...its a bad patch for tendy but you will find that over a dozen and half matches where one was going through a 'rough patch', not many average 50+.....not lara, not steve waugh, not ponting, etc etc.

Like i said, its a bad patch for tendulkar....but for most people, it would be an average patch.

Funny how the bad patch was extended by you to include the Bangladesh double century.

The true bad patch is an average of 40, but with so many low scores as I previously said.

 

[SpeedKing]

I think both Ponting and Tendulkar will pass that mark. I don't think Ponting will score 15000 runs at 59 mind you, but I think he will pass 40 centuries and 10,000 runs, and I think Tendulkar will do the same. Hard to see anyone else currently playing doing it, unless one of the young brigade turn out to be a star of course. Maybe Jaques Kallis.

yep that is the one that i feel is most likely to score 40 centuries and 10,000+ runs. He seems to have a almost perfect game. and he has scored is it 9 centuries in the his last 14 matches.

Another bright star who could reach such feats might be Micheal Clarke. If Pietersen has a nice 13+ yr long test career, he could also have a say

 

[Sanz]

Funny how the bad patch was extended by you to include the Bangladesh double century.

The true bad patch is an average of 40, but with so many low scores as I previously said.

Why is it funny ? didn't Tendulkar score another double century in australia and a huge 196 Not out in Pakistan during the same bad patch ?

 

[sledger]

Ponting easily. I reckon Ponting will break the record for most runs scored in tests. He's so amazing to watch with the bat.

wtf :s

 

[Top_Cat]

It's funny watching guys assume that these players will continue to score at the same rate as they are now when at their peak. Notwithstanding SJS saying that form naturally tapers off, injuries play their part too. This, personally, is why we're seeing Sachin's career taper off; everyone's just assuming this is a temporary form glitch and he'll be back to his best soon. Has anyone considered that it might not happen at all?

Everyone two years ago was tipping Murali to take 1000 Test wickets. They said similar things about Warnie in teh mid-90's. Now the injuries are coming and the figure has to be revised. No-one can say that Sachin will score 15000+ test runs or 40 centuries with any certainty. Even as great a batsman as Viv Richards, once he hit 30, was a relatively ordinary player for the rest of his career. All those little injuries built up over a lifetime or hard cricket and plenty of training eventually will take their toll and in Sachin's case, I think it's already happened and he'll never be as good player or regain the form he had 5 years ago.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Why is it funny ? didn't Tendulkar score another double century in australia and a huge 196 Not out in Pakistan during the same bad patch ?

It's hilarious actually. Tendulkar's last 4 innings (v Ban, SA) have been 36, 248*, 32*, 20. As those are his most recent contributions, they would sugest a return to form. Logic would suggest that a return to form ends a bad patch.

Over a period of 2 years or thereabout, Tendulkar played 17 Tests.
In that period, he had scores of 248*, 241*, 194* in individual innings. 683 runs in 3 innings unbeaten. Aside from that, he averaged 21.09. That's a very bad patch. Yes, he had those 3 innings, but they really did just inflate his average to those shallow enough to simply look at an overall statistic. Those 3 innings came amidst a total of 28, most of which he failed to register a decent score. 15 of the 28 innings were sub 10 and 9 of the 28 were 5 or less.

That's poor form.

 

[Top_Cat]

It's hilarious actually.

Yes, he's laughing all the way to the pavillion.

 

[Sanz]

Not Again, We dont want to start yet another Tendulkar is so full of crap thread.
Yes he was out of form, yet he scored almost a 1000 runs in the World Cup and I guess there was a player called 'Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar' was declared man of the series in that tournament.

When his poor slump started, he average stood at 58.46 and now it stands at 57.44, really some drop. Whether he scored all those runs against Bangladesh or in one single innings doesn't really matter to me because out of the 34 innings possible, Sachin didn't bat in 6 innings, was not out in 5 , played on cow-dung yards in NZ, has been suffering from elbow injury, was at the wrong end of some atrocious umpring and still managed to maintain his career run rate. Really very out of form.

I suggest you to go and read the archives on this forum and you will find that according to many Sachin has been out of form since his 2002 tour of WI.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

That is exactly the problem. No one (well not I) was saying that Tendulkar is crap, but certain people tend to get ultradefensive at the sight of anything resembling criticism of certain players. All that was stated is that Tendulkar was in poor form. You yourself agree that Tendulkar was in poor form. Don't now go justifying his class by quoting other achievements. We all know he's a great player.

The only one trying to turn this into a Tendulkar is crap argument here is the person who introduced the thought to the discussion.

 

[Top_Cat]

I'm not personally saying he's out of form. I'm personally saying he's in a decline independent of his form and that he'll never be the same player.

Whether he scored all those runs against Bangladesh or in one single innings doesn't really matter to me because out of the 34 innings possible, Sachin didn't bat in 6 innings, was not out in 5 , played on cow-dung yards in NZ, has been suffering from elbow injury, was at the wrong end of some atrocious umpring and still managed to maintain his career run rate. Really very out of form.

How can you say the innings mentioned are irrelevent? Sachin's career was typified, until a couple of years ago, by short gaps between hundreds but smaller scores. Now he's hit a few bigger scores but the big scores are fewer and far between. That's a pretty significant change. I still say it's indicative of a general decline in his batting. Considering the amount of cricket he's played from such a young age, it's natural.

 

[marc71178]

Why is it funny ? didn't Tendulkar score another double century in australia and a huge 196 Not out in Pakistan during the same bad patch ?

Yes but the point about this run was the number of single figures and scores in the teens he got - an incredible number for such a short number of games.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

It's funny watching guys assume that these players will continue to score at the same rate as they are now when at their peak. Notwithstanding SJS saying that form naturally tapers off, injuries play their part too. This, personally, is why we're seeing Sachin's career taper off; everyone's just assuming this is a temporary form glitch and he'll be back to his best soon. Has anyone considered that it might not happen at all?

Everyone two years ago was tipping Murali to take 1000 Test wickets. They said similar things about Warnie in teh mid-90's. Now the injuries are coming and the figure has to be revised. No-one can say that Sachin will score 15000+ test runs or 40 centuries with any certainty. Even as great a batsman as Viv Richards, once he hit 30, was a relatively ordinary player for the rest of his career. All those little injuries built up over a lifetime or hard cricket and plenty of training eventually will take their toll and in Sachin's case, I think it's already happened and he'll never be as good player or regain the form he had 5 years ago.

You're right, but the actual point the inevitable decline happens is far from set in stone. Tendulkar is only 31 now and is obviously starting to drop off a little bit (even if he is still a great player), while Lara who is a few years older is still close to his best. In the current Australian team guys like Langer, Hayden, Gilchrist and Martyn hit their peaks on the later side of 30, and some like Martyn are practically in their mid 30s and still getting better. Every player declines a bit as they get older, but some decline far later than others. Just like it was silly to write off McGrath without good cause because of his age (given that he is in pretty much the best form of his life right now), you can't say with any certainty that Ponting's best years aren't still ahead of him.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

I suggest you to go and read the archives on this forum and you will find that according to many Sachin has been out of form since his 2002 tour of WI.

Well, an argument can certainly be made... have a look this: http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerBatGraph.asp?PlayerID=1735

You can see that since he scored a hundred against the West Indies in October of 2002 he has passed his test average (58 declining to 57) just four times in over two years, and one of those times was against Bangladesh. Three of those four innings were massive (194 or more), so his average has not dropped significantly, but this indicates his consistency has dropped off since then. For a point of comparison, in said period he has played 28 innings, and passed his average four times. In the last 28 innings before that, he passed his average 10 times.

 

[Jono]

Boooo at the Sachin debate starting up again. I was actually enjoying this topic with the comparisons of Ponting and Dravid.

*walks out of thread angrily*

 

[SJS]

Boooo at the Sachin debate starting up again. I was actually enjoying this topic with the comparisons of Ponting and Dravid.

*walks out of thread angrily*

People who keep coming back to the Sachin, Lara, Warne, Murali debates, even those who consider these greats as 'over-rated, (may Allah bless their souls), do nothing but reveal their reverence of these cricketers.

They just cant get them off their radars. They are so enamoured by them.

No one criticises Vikram Solanki with the vehemence of a Sachin criticiser. Because Vikram Solanki is a nobody and Sachin is a legend. When you criticise Vikram Solanki you feel like a nobody yourself but when you criticise Sachin or even Bradman, as some have ventured to do, you seem to rise, at least in your own estimation, in a position higher than these worthies since you are sitting in judgement 'over' them !!

 

[Swervy]

Not Again, We dont want to start yet another Tendulkar is so full of crap thread.
Yes he was out of form, yet he scored almost a 1000 runs in the World Cup and I guess there was a player called 'Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar' was declared man of the series in that tournament.

When his poor slump started, he average stood at 58.46 and now it stands at 57.44, really some drop. Whether he scored all those runs against Bangladesh or in one single innings doesn't really matter to me because out of the 34 innings possible, Sachin didn't bat in 6 innings, was not out in 5 , played on cow-dung yards in NZ, has been suffering from elbow injury, was at the wrong end of some atrocious umpring and still managed to maintain his career run rate. Really very out of form.

I suggest you to go and read the archives on this forum and you will find that according to many Sachin has been out of form since his 2002 tour of WI.

you have to admit that Sachin doesnt look the force he once was though...and the inconsistancy of his recent years scoring kinda shows this...go on..jist admit it..you know you want to

 

[masterblaster]

Boooo at the Sachin debate starting up again. I was actually enjoying this topic with the comparisons of Ponting and Dravid.

*walks out of thread angrily*

*Walks into a CC Thread after a period of absence*

*Sees another futile Tendulkar debate*

*Wants to type 'Rahul Dravid' when comparing Ponting and Dravid*

*Hesitates*

*Walks Out of Thread*