"Racist"

[Dick Rockett]

I think Sanz is being unfairly singled out in this thread

He hasn't been singled out, as such. He made a comment early on in support of the general sentiment of this thread, which I thought contradicted what I feel have been some quite inflammatory statements that he's made elsewhere. I didn't initially name him - he guessed, thus bringing the focus onto himself.

He probably isn't a racist (I don't really believe there are any in these forums at all), but if he wishes to avoid such misunderstandings he should perhaps restrain his language somewhat.

 

[Sanz]

if he wishes to avoid such misunderstandings he should perhaps restrain his language somewhat.

I made that statement because people were making ignorant and insulting remarks full of sarcasm which were nothing but mocking someone's right to wear a veil :-

"people have the right to talk to a face rather than a piece of fabric."

" When we go to the middle east we abide by their traditions (not drinking alcohol, taking shoes off in holy place).. Why on earth do they cry foul when we expect them to abide by ours? "

"...Like listening to a surgeon with a mask on.."


"If I tried to teach a class whilst wearing a balaclava, I'd get sacked. Where's the difference? "

- "Ah but Neil, don't forget we live in a free and democratic multi-racial society!"

"So they shouldn't worry when I go stomping around a mosque in my trainers?"

"Just like bars have the right to ask people not to wear shorts and trainers?"

When confronted by logic - It was shot down as 'Off topic' because the thread related to UK.

"Why should this be any different if westerners go to foreign countries where it's considered rude (as in Langeveldts example) to wear sneakers in a mosque?"

"Why would you leave somewhere where your traditions aren't questioned in order to move to somewhere where they are? "

 

[Sanz]

Those were some of the things said in that thread before I made my post, it looks worse when you read those in thread. If you think that was a constructive discussion then IMO there is something wrong with your judgement.

It happens all the time, every time there is a discussion about Islam , it becomes a discussion of 'Us' vs. 'Them' and claims like 'If you want to live in our country, then follow our culture (basically western culture)' and blah blah which is very intolerant attitude.

My mistake in that thread was basically nothing but using the word 'Two' instead of 'Few' and nothing more.

 

[Dick Rockett]

Dude, this isn't the thread to have that argument. I'll reiterate though, that if you want to be taken seriously in a discussion you should temper your comments. If you want to disagree, that's up to you, but why would anyone want to debate with you when you resort to that kind of name calling?

Other posters in this thread have made some fairly generous comments about you, and while they may indeed be true, your behaviour in the veil thread has tarnished my opinion of you at least. I find it difficult to see past that.

 

[Sanz]

What makes you think that I want to debate with individuals who have such narrow opinion of how rest of the world dressess ?

If some members have passed on comments about me, then it is their opinion, If you think they were being generouls then it is your opinion. I really dont care what you think of me, it doesn't affect me a single bit, as far as I am concerned, I have already made my position clear about that post.

 

[Dick Rockett]

What makes you think that I want to debate with individuals who have such narrow opinion of how rest of the world dressess ?

Well, the fact that you did just that in the veil thread, and you're continuing to do so here.

You have quite a temper.

 

[Anil]

I think Sanz is being unfairly singled out in this thread. I’m surprised that anyone would consider him racist at all. For example, on the current Darrel Hair ban issue, he has come out in support of Hair. He has taken on many people who have defended the ban (including myself). I view him as an independent thinker. I may disagree with him on issues, but I do not view his comments as being biased or racist.

completely agree...

 

[Mr Casson]

Agreed. Casson is getting too comfortable IMO, and needs to be put down.

I'm going to kill you at church camp.

 

[Langeveldt]

Don't think I can add anything to this thread that hasn't been said by either side of the argument..

What's most amazing for me, is how much chaos a bloody bit of cloth causes..

 

[David]

Where I erred was when I said 'Only Two Westerners' - I could have used the word 'Few' in stead of 'two' and it would have been okay.

Actually I think it was the "so-called civilised world" comment where you erred.

 

[Anil]

Don't think I can add anything to this thread that hasn't been said by either side of the argument..

What's most amazing for me, is how much chaos a bloody bit of cloth causes..

why blame the cloth, it's just an inanimate object, the chaos is caused by people...

 

[Jono]

I view him as an independent thinker. I may disagree with him on issues, but I do not view his comments as being biased or racist.

Actually I'll definitely agree with that. Sanz may be sometimes a bit too grumpy on these boards, but IMO he's one of least nationalistically biased posters on these boards. He'll go against the "sub-contiental masses" if he feels they're wrong, and if he feels they're right he'll argue for them. Rarely is he biased in terms of race or nationality.

 

[FRAZ]

Actually I'll definitely agree with that. Sanz may be sometimes a bit too grumpy on these boards, but IMO he's one of least nationalistically biased posters on these boards. He'll go against the "sub-contiental masses" if he feels they're wrong, and if he feels they're right he'll argue for them. Rarely is he biased in terms of race or nationality.

Apart from a recent particular issue , I agree with that. He sure has his own point of view !

 

[Nate]

I made that statement because people were making ignorant and insulting remarks full of sarcasm which were nothing but mocking someone's right to wear a veil :-

"people have the right to talk to a face rather than a piece of fabric."

" When we go to the middle east we abide by their traditions (not drinking alcohol, taking shoes off in holy place).. Why on earth do they cry foul when we expect them to abide by ours? "

"...Like listening to a surgeon with a mask on.."


"If I tried to teach a class whilst wearing a balaclava, I'd get sacked. Where's the difference? "

- "Ah but Neil, don't forget we live in a free and democratic multi-racial society!"

"So they shouldn't worry when I go stomping around a mosque in my trainers?"

"Just like bars have the right to ask people not to wear shorts and trainers?"

When confronted by logic - It was shot down as 'Off topic' because the thread related to UK.

"Why should this be any different if westerners go to foreign countries where it's considered rude (as in Langeveldts example) to wear sneakers in a mosque?"

"Why would you leave somewhere where your traditions aren't questioned in order to move to somewhere where they are? "

I blame Rich for pretty much all of that.

 

[Matteh]

What makes you think that I want to debate with individuals who have such narrow opinion of how rest of the world dressess ?

If some members have passed on comments about me, then it is their opinion, If you think they were being generouls then it is your opinion. I really dont care what you think of me, it doesn't affect me a single bit, as far as I am concerned, I have already made my position clear about that post.

I'd quite like to know why you're defensive to the point of aggression.

 

[Slow Love™]

I'd quite like to know why you're defensive to the point of aggression.

It tends to happen when accusations of racism fly about. Let it go.

 

[David]

I just think it's because you're all racist to one degree or another and don't want to admit it.

 

[Slow Love™]

I just think it's because you're all racist to one degree or another and don't want to admit it.

To an extent, it's true. The person that insists he's above prejudice is likely deceiving himself.

 

[Matteh]

It tends to happen when accusations of racism fly about. Let it go.

There's countless examples from many threads.

 

[Sanz]

Well, the fact that you did just that in the veil thread, and you're continuing to do so here.

So I am being racist here again ? Did you know that there is a 'report' facility to report those kind of posts and posters ? You can go on and on about it or you can use report facility and let the mods/admins of this site decide. Either way choice is yours.

You have quite a temper.

You dont know anything about me to make any kind of assumptions.