Pujara is an ATG batter (or) how long should a career last before it is judged?

[uvelocity]

people are stupid

 

[fredfertang]

Barry is pretty poor in the commentary box. Waiting for Chetaswar to get his turn to decide.

I managed to blag my way to a corporate hospitality day at Lord's on the first day of the Test against South Africa this summer when someone cried off sick, and Barry Richards was the speaker over the lunch interview (by which time most of the idiots I was with were already pissed) and he was, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the worst cricket speaker I have ever seen

Doesn't alter the fact though that he was the best batsman I've ever seen - of course that was only around the county circuit, but it really was a case of men against boys - he made batting look so incredibly easy, and I only ever saw a bowler get him out once when Geoff Arnold got him on a dreadful wicket at Bournemouth from a delivery that kept very low indeed - every other time I saw him dismissed it was his own fault for being too complacent - looked at objectively bagapath is right of course, but everyone who actually saw Richards bat knows he was the greatest ever

 

[benchmark00]

I managed to blag my way to a corporate hospitality day at Lord's on the first day of the Test against South Africa this summer when someone cried off sick, and Barry Richards was the speaker over the lunch interview (by which time most of the idiots I was with were already pissed) and he was, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the worst cricket speaker I have ever seen

Doesn't alter the fact though that he was the best batsman I've ever seen - of course that was only around the county circuit, but it really was a case of men against boys - he made batting look so incredibly easy, and I only ever saw a bowler get him out once when Geoff Arnold got him on a dreadful wicket at Bournemouth from a delivery that kept very low indeed - every other time I saw him dismissed it was his own fault for being too complacent - looked at objectively bagapath is right of course, but everyone who actually saw Richards bat knows he was the greatest ever

Greatest ever? vitstl Tangy.

 

[kyear2]

thanks. i really hope to.

We all do.

How does Barry's career compare to Greenidge's at Hampshire while they were there together?

 

[fredfertang]

Greatest ever? vitstl Tangy.

.... of those I've actually seen that is, and he was just about the first as I'm not that ****ing old

 

[benchmark00]

His brother Viv was a good batsman also iirc.

 

[fredfertang]

Brian Close's missus is called Viv, apparently it caused some confusion when Closey was at Somerset, although I've always struggled to understand why

 

[Pothas]

If Pujara fell out with the BCCI and never played another Test, despite completely dominating FC cricket for many years in multiple countries (given the relative lack of Test players in domestic cricket compared to Richards' time, he'd have to average considerably more than mid-fifties), then in 30 years' time people would no doubt consider him amongst the best ever. He'd deserve it.

Sounds an excellent idea to me, he is more than welcome to follow in Barry's footsteps and come to Hampshire.

 

[dhillon28]

thanks. i really hope to.

haha, lol. what a G.

 

[dhillon28]

Barry Richards even being mentioned in ATG terms has always been a big joke for me. First class cricket is nothing compared to grind and pressure of international cricket. Just ask graeme hick and vinod kambli.

 

[Red]

Barry Richards even being mentioned in ATG terms has always been a big joke for me. First class cricket is nothing compared to grind and pressure of international cricket. Just ask graeme hick and vinod kambli.

It doesn't matter how much anyone dislikes Bradman (for whatever reasons), no one can dispute the fact that he was as astute as anyone else in the game, and that he saw more cricket than most other people. Bradman's opinion of Barry Richards was incredibly high, as was Chappell's, Benaud's and a host of others.

Many believe him to have been the second best batsman to have ever played.

 

[marc71178]

If he was as astute as is made out, explain his XI where Tallon bats at 6?

 

[Red]

If he was as astute as is made out, explain his XI where Tallon bats at 6?

There were some question marks over the make up of that team and the author of the book. Was published after Bradman died.

Tallon at 6 aside, it's a good team if you replace Bedser in the starting XI with 12th man Hammond.

 

[Jono]

Oh go and get ****ed

thanks. i really hope to.

Walk away Jager, he just ****ed you up.

 

[Jager]

Walk away Jager, he just ****ed you up.

I think I need to quit CW after that.

 

[Cabinet96]

I actually think it will be interesting to see how Barry Richards compares to players like Cook at the end of their careers. Cook will never go around the domestic circuit wowing crowds with his stroke play, will probably not even average significantly more than 50 at best and may never look like a champion batsmen against the best bowlers. But due to the early start of his career, the sheer number of tests played nowadays, and the fact that he's only missed one test (what would have been his 3rd) since his debut, he may go onto score huge amounts of runs. I wonder how people would compare Richards to someone averaging just under 50 but with 12,000 runs and 35 100's under his belt.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I actually think it will be interesting to see how Barry Richards compares to players like Cook at the end of their careers. Cook will never go around the domestic circuit wowing crowds with his stroke play, will probably not even average significantly more than 50 at best and may never look like a champion batsmen against the best bowlers. But due to the early start of his career, the sheer number of tests played nowadays, and the fact that he's only missed one test (what would have been his 3rd) since his debut, he may go onto score huge amounts of runs. I wonder how people would compare Richards to someone averaging just under 50 but with 12,000 runs and 35 100's under his belt.

In 10 years time, when a new generation of cricket fans would be assessing Cook's career..they would barely know only one Richards- the other fellow with 24 test centuries..

 

[cnerd123]

I think the disagreement here lies in the definition of ATG.

Do you base it on who is the greatest talent wise - quality of stroke play, how good they looked, their capability to dominate...or do you base it on those who have proven records all over the world, who have scored the runs time and time again, who are proven performers at the highest level.

All the rhetoric about Barry Richards is centered around how brilliant he looked. The ease with which he hit the ball, his array of shots, the elegance of his strokeplay, the way he could dominate the best bowling of his day. And that is to be backed up with one good Test series, and a fantastic FC record.

But a lot of the same could be said for a player like Vinod Kambli. Incredible FC record, immensely talented batsman, some would say he was better than Sachin. But he didn't perform to that talent at the Test level. Had he been banned from playing cricket after the amazing start to his Test career, we could easily talk of him the same way we talk of Barry Richards. But we don't. Because he was given the opportunity to keep playing Tests, and we saw the mental frailties he possessed, and he eventually slipped out of the team and out of contention for All Time Greatness.

Who's to say that if Barry Richards was offered the same opportunities, that he wouldn't return the same results? What if he turned out to be another FC giant and Test Match muppet? What if he couldn't handle the pressure, didn't have the temperament? What if his talent abandoned him at the highest level?

A lot of players have incredible FC records. A LOT. But we don't classify them all as ATGs. Many of them have failed at Tests. And personally, while I respect the talent Barry Richard is claimed to have possessed, I won't consider him for ATG status. Because to me, being immensely talented is not enough to be considered an ATG. What you do with that talent matters just as much, if not more. And yes, Barry Richards was unlucky to not have more opportunities to display his abundant talent. He might have, for all we known, been the best batsman to have walked on Earth since Bradman. At the same time, he might have, for all we known, have just been an earlier version of Kambli.

Having said all this...Pujara, WAG.

 

[popepouri]

Jimmy Adams was an all time great for 15 tests or so.

Seriously, you should be able to assess them by the time their career is winding down.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Jimmy Adams was an all time great for 15 tests or so.

As were Trott and Hussey.