Pujara an enigma?

[Jayro]

I can barely decide if he is an asset or liability on the team - discuss if his playing these runless marathons breaks the backs of opposite bowlers or on the contrary put India in a paradoxical shell.

 

[indiaholic]

Everybody else has intent. Let him do his thing IMO. Having said that he has been a liability for the last two years.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

He just played a crucial knock last innings. Looking at the context of the game, it was vital for India’s win.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

I can barely decide if he is an asset or liability on the team - discuss if his playing these runless marathons breaks the backs of opposite bowlers or on the contrary put India in a paradoxical shell.

Pujara is a huge asset IMO.

It's not like pace bowlers will significantly drop their speed after bowling a certain number of overs, but they do lose their edge and bowl with less intensity after a while. And bowlers also tend to lose their steam in a long series if they are overworked. Like I had said earlier, his method will not work on a pitch which is too bowler friendly coz you won't get to survive for too long no matter what. On balanced pitches like the one in the previous game, he can make life hell for the opposition. The pitch in the WTC final was a total lottery IMO, a more proactive approach on such pitches would help coz there were at least 2-3 unplayable deliveries every over and one of them was going to get you, no point just hanging around.

 

[Bijed]

I've never really objected to the speed he scores at on the whole (even though he's definitely crossed the line at times of just flat out missing out on runs because he goes so defensive) and he's still got it in him to make those 'wear down the bowler' contributions and grind out important runs. Problem is, he does just go for cheap scores a lot nowadays without facing enough deliveries to make you think "well he did a job" and without the upside of big scores it's hard to overlook this. His knock at Lords was really important but it's not enough to stop him from being on notice if he fails twice at Edgbaston imo

 

[Shri]

Everybody else has intent. Let him do his thing IMO. Having said that he has been a liability for the last two years.

you don't need intent memeing to put away half volleys, which he has stopped doing for a while now

 

[Bijed]

you don't need intent memeing to put away half volleys, which he has stopped doing for a while now

Yeah this, basically. 45(200) might grind down the bowlers, but something more like 85(200) does so just as well and is obviously just a better innings even whilst still being on the slow side

Feels a bit like the strike-rate version of the "Players with awkward-looking techniques value their wicket, players who make batting look easy get themselves out" fallacy

 

[Furball]

Haven't watched anything of India to comment on Pujara in particular, there's nothing wrong with a defensive top order bat per se, your 4 and 5 would love to come in against a 50 over old ball and attack more often than not. Still need to score the occasional runs though, you can't just blunt the attack but leave the actual run scoring to everyone else.

 

[srbhkshk]

No one's questioning Pujara's defensive batting, but
1. He has been struggling to even survive in the recent times.
2. There are limits to how much defensive batting you need, especially in the first innings of a match.

 

[Teja.]

He has been worse than mediocre for nearly 3 years now since his big tour to Australia in 18/19. He has played quite a few very useful defensive knocks but No.3 is just too important a position to average 25 with no hundreds over 20+ tests in.

It's a shame because it felt like he was hitting his true peak right before this slump with an average comfortably over 50 and an ATG series in Australia.

Pujara after the 2018/19 Australia tour had 5426 runs in 68 tests @ 51.1 with 18 centuries which is basically comparable to Fab 4 and heading towards ATG territory for this era considering he got a lot of important runs. Since then, he has 911 runs @ 27.6 in 20 tests with zero hundreds.

In comparison to the end of 2017, when he averaged 52.96 in 55 tests, his average has fell by about 8 runs in 33 tests since then to settle at 45.5 which is pretty staggering.

 

[Noumenon]

The fall of a rebel angel. Seven lives, many faces. A Posteriori. The cross of changes.

Yes, Pujara is all of the above.

 

[srbhkshk]

The fall of a rebel angel. Seven lives, many faces. A Posteriori. The cross of changes.

Yes, Pujara is all of the above.

okay Harsha

 

[morgieb]

I think if the rest of the lineup was firing having Pujara play a purely grinding role because it can come off at times and his reputation is still very high would be fine.

Problem is that you've got a slumping Kohli at 4 and an inconsistent Rahane at 5. You could argue that Rahane should go instead but at least his few quality knocks (the MCG ton, the 50 here) seem to be more substantial in terms of runs than Pujara's key knocks which are like 45(200). That last innings probably saves him for Leeds, but he has to be on significant notice at best.

 

[Arachnodouche]

He looked a little more authoritative this time around. I've often been frustrated with his inability to put away rank half-volleys, but I'd wager no Indian fan really wants him to be dumped unceremoniously like this. If he can carry forward the gains from Lords and churn out 30s and 40s for the rest of the series, I'll be happy enough to have him around.

 

[karan_fromthestands]

Yeah this, basically. 45(200) might grind down the bowlers, but something more like 85(200) does so just as well and is obviously just a better innings even whilst still being on the slow side

Feels a bit like the strike-rate version of the "Players with awkward-looking techniques value their wicket, players who make batting look easy get themselves out" fallacy

But is that his limitation? I mean some players don't have a different gear, why bother in that case? He can simply occupy the crease for long periods and make life easy for others. I wouldn't mind three guys in the top order who bat just like him if it sets a solid foundation for the rest of the team.

I remember Strauss, Cook and Trott seeing off the new ball so well for England and providing the perfect platform to number 4, 5 and 6 to just go out there and express themselves. Of course they weren't that slow, but the impact of one or two out of those three staying on the crease made a massive difference.

 

[Calm_profit]

Rich man's Chris Tavare

 

[Bijed]

But is that his limitation? I mean some players don't have a different gear, why bother in that case? He can simply occupy the crease for long periods and make life easy for others. I wouldn't mind three guys in the top order who bat just like him if it sets a solid foundation for the rest of the team.

I remember Strauss, Cook and Trott seeing off the new ball so well for England and providing the perfect platform to number 4, 5 and 6 to just go out there and express themselves. Of course they weren't that slow, but the impact of one or two out of those three staying on the crease made a massive difference.

Oh, the problem isn't that he scores 45 (200) all the time, it's that it's become basically his ceiling. If he did it all the time, it would still be a regression from when he could occupy the crease and make big scores by doing so, but as you say, you'd take the consistent contributions. But he's failing a lot between his moderate grinding scores. Basically his consistency and his ceiling have fallen dramatically.

Of course, he's still better than our top 3

 

[Jack1]

He was very good for a while, but dropped right off. I suspect the 2nd innings 45 has saved him, because otherwise really he should be dropped somehow. He's not electric in the field either. He averages 25.96 in his last 13 tests, you wouldn't consider that good enough to play for India as a batsman in any position. Kohli and Rahane have been struggling massively too though for 10 tests. It has to be said, not many players at all for all teams make that strong of a case to bat 3. Certain players prefer 3 , but there aren't that many of them - so the selection pool for the position is small for every country. Unfortunately I can't sort performance by position in first class cricket for Indians (or any nation), I can't suggest who should necessarily getting a chance at 3 instead, I'm sure some Indian fans would know - but no one's suggested an alternative in the entire thread yet which says something.

In theory India could remove Pujara for Ashwin, keeping Jadeja in for his runs and fielding (despite being wicketless in the series) - but the order gets very complicated. No one will want to bat 3 and it could disrupt the entire team batting someone out of position at 3. That being said Rahane and Kohli are so out of form you could argue there's nothing to lose by batting one of them at 3 (and the other at 4) for the rest of the series. It would be a tough call to drop someone after a second innings 45 though (and it's unlikely, but it might be a kickstart to a return to long term form), so I can't really see it happening.

 

[Daemon]

There’s a few alternatives - Vihari/Agarwal/Easwaran

When Gill is fit he’s an option too.

 

[nightprowler10]

Would love to see how Gill goes at #3. I really liked what I saw of him.