Predict your test XI in 3 years time.

[cnerd123]

it does it does it does thats my whole point

 

[cnerd123]

I hate when people say a guy like Zaheer was a master of reverse swing. No he wasn't. He was a master of contrast swing. He hid the ball in his runup and got it to swing late and prodigiously towards the shiny side. He bowled way too slow to be a reverse-swing bowler.

Any bowler can bowl contrast swing. Only a select few can actually bowl reverse swing ala Imran/Waqar/Wasim.

 

[hendrix]

I'm confused by that diagram. He claims that bowlers reverse it without changing their action or the ball position, yet the shiny side and rough sides are inverted in the 2 diagrams.

 

[cnerd123]

I'm confused by that diagram. He claims that bowlers reverse it without changing their action or the ball position, yet the shiny side and rough sides are inverted in the 2 diagrams.

Yea. Basically for conventional swing once the new-ball shine has worn off, you make the rough side face and point the seam towards where you want the ball to go. However you have to be rather slow to do this. It's how Bhuvi can keep swinging the ball for a while once the initial shine has gone.

If you bowl above a certain speed, you'll find this sort of swing hard to obtain and basically become the bog standard 135 kmph line and length quick who does nothing with the older ball.

However, flip the ball around and bowl a bit quicker...and voila, you get reverse swing. Same action. Same grip. Same seam position. But now the ball moves opposite to how it was when it was brand new. That's reverse swing.

But if you bowl seam-up and look to swing it to the shiny side, much like Zak in his prime, that's contrast swing.

 

[cnerd123]

So idk what Boult/Southee/Wagner/Henry all do since I haven't seen enough of them, but i'm just nitpicking on whether it's reverse swing they are achieving or contrast swing.

Either way, the degree of swing they well get will depend a lot on what pace they bowl and how much backspin they get on the ball, which means it's pretty hard to improve/develop that.

 

[hendrix]

If you look up Southee's 4 for vs the Windies he's bowling at around 140 and the ball is moving towards the shiny side for the first two dismissals. I don't know how to reconcile that with the article.

 

[cnerd123]

I'd suggest Contrast. Seam was slightly angled but still relatively upright, and the ball was moving right out of the hand instead of dipping away late. It also didn't swing a lot, just slight movement, given he was bowling from wide of the crease already so the angle was playing a role.

 

[Riggins]

Maybe in terms of controlled wind tunnel experiments and whatnot that's all theoretically correct, but in terms of actual cricket being played I respectfully disagree with you.

 

[hendrix]

I'd suggest Contrast. Seam was slightly angled but still relatively upright, and the ball was moving right out of the hand instead of dipping away late. It also didn't swing a lot, just slight movement, given he was bowling from wide of the crease already so the angle was playing a role.

But the speed of those two deliveries (136 and 141) is too high for contrast swing based on that article.

 

[cnerd123]

But the speed of those two deliveries (136 and 141) is too high for contrast swing based on that article.

Nah, check it again.

At <70mph, the ball will swing to the rough side with the seam up. At >70mph it will move to the smooth side.

Since pretty much all bowlers at international level are bowling >70mph (112kmph), the noticed 'reverse swing' we see is probably mostly just contrast swing, with the ball swerving to the shiny side.

 

[Prince EWS]

Trying to predict which team I'll be supporting in three years in the first place is probably a more difficult task than predicting its lineup tbh.

 

[Riggins]

Nah what you call 'contrast swing' is reverse swing, plain and simple. Maybe it's not the most accurately named thing, but that's what it is. The 'reverse swing' you've described and is mentioned in that article just doesn't happen, and if it does it's a regulation inswinger which has swung despite poor seam position.

 

[Gob]

Warner
Maddinson
Burns
Smith*
Patterson
MMarsh
Whiteman+
Pattinson
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon

 

[Saint Kopite]

01. Murali Vijay.
02. KL Rahul.
03. Cheteshwar Pujara.
04. Virat Kohli. (*)
05. Rohit Sharma.
06. Ajinkya Rahane.
07. Sanju Samson. (+)
08. Ravindra Jadeja.
09. Bhuvneshwar Kumar.
10. Mohammed Shami.
11. Ishant Sharma/Ravichandran Ashwin.

Ishant outside the subcontinent while Ashwin in the subcontinent.

 

[Debris]

I hate when people say a guy like Zaheer was a master of reverse swing. No he wasn't. He was a master of contrast swing. He hid the ball in his runup and got it to swing late and prodigiously towards the shiny side. He bowled way too slow to be a reverse-swing bowler.

Any bowler can bowl contrast swing. Only a select few can actually bowl reverse swing ala Imran/Waqar/Wasim.

That article made me wonder how it is possible to not swing the ball. You bowl cross-seam, I guess.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

That article made me wonder how it is possible to not swing the ball. You bowl cross-seam, I guess.

If you don't impart enough backspin on the ball you can have perfect seam release and not swing it.

 

[Hurricane]

If you don't impart enough backspin on the ball you can have perfect seam release and not swing it.

Tell me more please. Does this apply to any club bowler wanting to learn how to swing it.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Tell me more please. Does this apply to any club bowler wanting to learn how to swing it.

The more backspin you impart on the ball, the more angular momentum it has. The more angular momentum it as, the more stable it is in it's rotational axis it is. This means the ball spins strongly in its release position and "cuts" a path through the air with the seam proud rather than tumbling randomly through the air. It's the same principle as the "gravity defying flywheell" demonstration so common in high school physics.

 

[Hurricane]

That was most awesome Albi. Many thanks

 

[wellAlbidarned]

That was most awesome Albi. Many thanks

always happy to pretend I actually know something useful